Beyond Order: 12 More Rules For Life by Jordan B. Peterson

Beyond Order: 12 More Rules For Life Reviews

• 
  Sean

  How is this grifter still a thing? Seriously? I'd really hoped Jordan Peterson's weird and cultish lobsterpeople army would disband and stop spamming their guru all over the place when he turned himself into a vegetable. It appears, unfortunately, this isn't what's going to happen. Jordan Peterson, regaining the use of his motor skills after his drug addictions left him in a coma, is back to give you more life advice!
  
  Taking self-help advice from Jordan Peterson at this point is like taking diet advice from Chris Christie. Actually, it's like taking diet advice from Jordan Peterson and his Chaos Dragon daughter, Mikhaila. All-beef diet? Because a glass of apple cider gave him a psychotic episode that lasted 25 days? No wonder he became depressed - can you imagine the constipation!?
  
  His self-help advice is so banal it's ludicrous. Hey, clean your room guys! Stand up straight...wash your penis! Your mom probably gave you this advice during your childhood and she didn't charge you $25 for it. But that's not really why he became famous.
  
  Jordan Peterson is someone who defends the status quo by telling people they shouldn't criticize injustice in the world, instead they should worry about fixing their own imperfections. He gave this advice as he was popping pills like Tic Tacs and going on diatribes about the downfall of western civilization (which is apparently due to crossdressing postmodern commies or whatever). Can people really not see this extraordinary hypocrisy?
  
  Apparently with Peterson it is rules for thee, but not for me. This is a guy who stated during his interview with Cathy Newman that freedom of speech means the right to offend, but then Dr. Free Speech goes and sues a university for $1.5 million because faculty criticized him during a meeting.
  
  Jordan Peterson offers those right-wing incel types the trappings of intellectualism for their bizarre movement. At the end of the day it's nothing more than a veneer. He's just a more articulate version of that crazy guy riding around with the "Obama Is A Marxist" bumper sticker.
  
  Jordan Peterson's last book opened with multiple pages dedicated to using lobsters to make points about human nature. That is, Peterson argued certain human behaviors, like hierarchies, are completely natural because lobsters also exhibit them. But do you know what behavior lobsters exhibit which he failed to mention? They urinate on each other for greetings. Which is how I recommend you greet Jordan Peterson if you ever come across him. If he gets upset just tell him it's completely natural because lobsters do it.
  
  --------
  
  Update 3/17/21
  
  Alright, enough! I gave it a go, but I'm sorry lobsterpeople, this is some Deepak Chopra level gibberish you guys are into.
  
  In addition, if you're already familiar with Jordan Peterson, having read his previous books and/or listened to his interviews and talks, something you'll notice as you make your way through this book is that he's just rehashing old material. And one of his original 12 rules was to be precise in your speech! He also warned in his last book against having too many rules, claiming that was counterproductive. But here we are with 12 more rules! I suppose if this one sells anything like the last one there will be even more rules added, which he'll really have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for. Make sure your shoelaces are tied? Remember to stay hydrated?
  
  The dressed up platitudes he offers in his new book are represented poorly, often with little to do with the claims being made, and sometimes get downright creepy. Like one tangent where he speculated on the sex lives of Harry Potter characters and how Harry needs to slay dragons to conquer their virginity or something. Huh?!
  
  Other times Beyond Order includes historical facts that are just objectively wrong. For example when he veers into ancient Egyptian mythology and starts speaking about the goddess Isis. Attempting to fit Isis into his "women are chaos" schtick, JP claims Isis was a goddess of chaos. She wasn't. The opposite actually. She was associated with order and order to the ancient Egyptians was viewed as a feminine force.
  
  Peterson is no stranger to these historical revisionisms while attempting to support his arguments. He previously claimed he's studied Nazism for 40 years and it was an atheistic doctrine. But all you need to do is take a glance at Nazi uniforms to see a major hole in Peterson's claims. Wehrmacht soldiers wore the phrase "Gott Mitt Uns" (God With Us) right on their uniforms.
  
  In multiple ways Peterson, as usual, warns people not to go against tradition in Beyond Order. There didn't appear to be hardly any meaningful action recommended in a way that was not personal. It's the same tired clean your room before you dare criticize the world sorta stuff, coming to you from the guy whose room was really very dirty (both metaphorically and literally, if you've ever seen videos he's done in his study) and who loves to criticize the world.
  
  Beyond Order continues to misrepresent the views of writers, both those JP opposes and those he co-opts to use for affirmation of his traditionalism. An example of the latter would be Dostoevsky. Dostoevsky has universal appeal because of his unique psychological insights, but his great works are really arguments against what he saw as the corrupting influence of nearly all western culture on 19th century Russia. What was Dostoevsky trying to preserve? Something like "Obschina," a Christian-socialist way of life for the 19th century Russian peasant, including communal ownership of the land, obviously not a goal shared by JP.
  
  One positive is that Peterson did appear to take it easier with the crustacean analogies than in the past, which I appreciated. Really, couldn't you think of anything better for your readers to aspire to than sea insects that get boiled alive?!
  
  Anyway, this is all amazing to me. Who knew lying about a law designed to protect people from discrimination, which is what led to Jordan Peterson's rise to fame, could be so lucrative? Remember all that fearmongering? It's been 189 weeks since Bill C-16 became law. Do you know what the arrest tally is? Zero.
• 
  Joe

  Reading these reviews, I am struck by the idea that people tend to rate the man rather than the work. As a wise man once told me about reviews, ignore the best ones as well as the worst ones. Those people often have an agenda that is clearly influencing their opinion.
  
  Now then, to the matter at hand. Let me begin by saying I thoroughly enjoyed the original 12 rules book. It helped me a great deal, and I enjoyed the message of personal responsibility. I work as a psychologist, and many of my clients are young men in their late teens and early 20's. I witnessed firsthand how his message of personal responsibility helped a number of these guys. In a generation that has seemingly victimized everyone, it was a timely message to grow up and take ownership of your life. No one is coming to save you.
  
  I didn't like this book nearly as much. Yes, I was somewhat influenced by my diminished opinion of Dr. Peterson. The story of food poisoning and subsequent opiate addiction seemed pretty weak to me, and at odds with his overall message of self-reliance. Although I despise political correctness and cancel culture, I also feel he has made some serious missteps in picking his battles. A psychologist's job is not to judge, and to understand that ultimately each person we see in our sessions is an N of 1. The Dr. Phil's of the world do a great deal of damage publicizing the very private journey of psychotherapy in search of ego gratification. Jordan has also wandered into this territory in my opinion.
  
  And yet, this book has some excellent sections. Powerful insights about the importance of ownership of one's behaviour. There are not many influential people consistently delivering this message these days.
  
  He wanders way too far into the bible, mythology, etc. You're no Joseph Campbell, Jordan, and stop trying to be.
  
  So it's a three for me. I'm glad I read it and got a lot out of it, but it certainly had some weak spots.
• 
  Brian Sachetta

  I want to start this review by saying that if you’ve never read any of Jordan Peterson’s work, then you may want to proceed cautiously with this one. That’s not to say it’s bad by any means; as you can tell by my high rating of it, that’s clearly not the case. It’s just to say that Peterson’s writing style is very distinct and not necessarily for everyone.
  
  To elaborate on that a bit more, I would classify the writing style as a combination of scholarly, dense, profound, and allusional. As was the case in “12 Rules for Life,” here, Peterson starts each chapter with a broad “life rule,” meanders off onto a somewhat long-winded but very well-backed dialogue about said rule (and why we should implement it), then, finally, finishes by stating said rule again.
  
  Another reason why I think Peterson’s style can be difficult to digest is that it’s really not all that similar to that of the more “traditional” self-help best-sellers. This one, just like his other books, is like a thesis meets poetry meets mythology meets personal development work. At times, it’s hard to sift through, but by golly, is there profoundness in the weeds.
  
  Now, onto my personal experience and review of this one. As you can probably tell, it took me a very long time to grow accustomed to Peterson’s writing style. Personally, I find his podcasts and Youtube videos to be more approachable and interesting. But, again, as evidenced by the rating I’ve given this one, that doesn’t mean it isn’t approachable or interesting at all. It’s very interesting indeed — just less approachable than some of his other mediums.
  
  As for the content itself, there’s so much gold to discover here. Sure, it’s at times hidden amongst the long paragraphs, but it’s still there, nonetheless. Though I took a ton of notes while reading this one, and it would be hard to repeat all of those notes here, I think my favorite parts were the discussions on the inevitable difficulties of life, the meaning found in personal responsibility and sacrifice, and how we can wrangle chaos into order and create beauty in the world.
  
  I really can’t put my finger on why I liked this one better than “12 Rules.” Again, maybe it’s because I’ve gotten more accustomed to Peterson’s writing over the last three years. Or, maybe it’s because I felt this one had more personal application for me.
  
  Whatever the case, I definitely enjoyed my time with it. And while it can certainly be difficult to parse through all the content here, the profound moments and insights are so great that I can’t help but give this one the highest marks possible. Note: I speak vaguely here only because the book is so long that it’s hard to really focus on its specific contents — it would take a very long time to discuss them in a way that does the book justice.
  
  So, all in all: this was a very enjoyable read for me. Peterson’s personal style and philosophy are on full display here, and, dare I say, he’s cultivated them almost perfectly in the years since his last release. His ability to willingly take the inevitable darkness of life and spin it into a motivating force is something that I admire so strongly. And, again, while it’s not necessarily for everyone, I’m fairly confident that fans of his will absolutely adore it.
  
  -Brian Sachetta
  Author of “Get Out of Your Head”
• 
  Tara Brabazon

  I am 52. I have three degrees, two graduate diplomas, three masters degrees, and a PhD. I am currently enrolled in a 4th masters. I have written 20 books and over 200 refereed articles. I have presented this information so that the review that follows has context.
  
  This is the worst book I have ever read. I have read tens of thousands of academic books. This is as dreadful as any self published book I have ever read. I have found out about Jordan Peterson's father in law. I found out how he mis-managed his wife's cancer diagnosis and centred on himself.
  
  This is the most pretentious nonsense I have ever read. A bloke is telling us about being a bloke. He needs to 'self heal'. He needs to read something. Please. Read something. An opinion is not real. An opinion is not true.
  
  
• 
  Rodrigo

  Somehow worse than "12 Rules for Life".
  
  Edit:
  
  
  
  A broken clock etc.
• 
  Teri

  I just finished. It was amazing. I'm percolating on my final review and will post soon.
  
  
  
  Old updates:
  
  Just finished Rule 4. It was what I needed to hear today. Also, I love the illustrations that accompany each chapter. I restrain myself from peeking ahead and only look at the illustration for each chapter as I get to it, so I am really savoring them.
  
  Just finished Rule 2 and, wow, I am motivated to be the hero of my own story. I love how in his first book, he ended each chapter with such power and, so far, Beyond Order does not disappoint. Honestly, the end of Rule 2 felt like a mic drop.
  
  What will end up in the final review:
  
  Jordan Peterson has the amazing ability to articulate extremely complex truths with clarity and power. I am forever indebted to him for helping me understand myself and see my internal motivations and the way forward in life much more clearly. I have been severely impacted by mental illness since I can remember and I attribute a significant amount of my healing to reading and hearing Jordan Peterson's words (I actually attribute all my healing to my Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ but I believe They worked through him to help me).
  
  In 2018, Jordan Peterson said to start moving forward, to make incremental progress and that in a few years, you will be unrecognizable to yourself. It's not like I don't have any problems anymore, but *this has happened for me*. When I look at where I am now (Mar 2021) compared to 2018, things are so much better than I thought possible.
• 
  Marcas

  Beyond Order shows JBP as more of a social creature, calling for an affirmative attitude towards conserving culture and creatively transforming it. This balanced account, which draws upon his work with individuals in a clinical setting, corrects some of the extremist errors in Freud and Rousseau and undercuts our crude 'expressive individualism'. Peterson punches holes in our social imaginary by drawing upon a variety of fields, centring on his deep and time-tested work as a psychologist.
  Peterson sounds more like the late, great, Rene Girard at times and implicitly refers to mankind as a 'mimetic' creature. Here, he seems finally to be finding the purposeful contours of evolution, expressed through psychology and religion and iterated over aeons.
  The iterated game that he refers to, bringing the best of Piaget, reintegrates play and utility, highlighting that life is not a zero-sum game. Contra the ideologues or the nihilistic expressivist, drifting from nothing meaningful to nothing meaningful, Peterson has hope and promises that beyond order there is something paradoxically intelligible and worth living for. He encourages us to be grateful in spite of life's suffering, offering a plethora of reasons why this is the best approach to life. Beauty, practical logic, and love amongst them.
  
  Ignore many of the ideological one star reviews, most of which are by people we know who have not read the book. Beyond Order is a measured and readable book from the much maligned professor and a welcome return to form after a few turbulent years beset by illness, family suffering, and the pressures of public life. Books like this one can take you beyond cleaning your room, and beyond ossified order, if we let them with some semblance of humility.
• 
  Bob Lewis

  When I read and reviewed the first 12 Rules for Life book, I described it as a sort of self-help book for people who don't like self-help books. Present was the distillation of common sensical (but often unarticulated) ideas, but absent were the trite catch phrases and easy fixes that plague much of the genre. I'm pleased to report that the same can be said of this second volume.
  
  While this is ostensibly a self-help book that distills important psychological ideas into a dozen simple "rules" for living a better, more meaningful, and more productive life, it's much more than that. It's a wide-ranging treatise on psychology, philosophy, theology, and occasionally even politics (though not too much, and always in a fairly balanced treatment). It's true that the rules themselves are somewhat simplistic--some might even say self-evident. And that's a fair statement. The value in such a book as this, though, is less in the list of rules as they can be read in the table of contents, but in the immeasurably rich explanations and analyses that explain--at a remarkably deep level--the sound psychological, philosophical, historical, theological, mythological, and narrative reasons for each of the rules.
  
  The author has an amazing talent for seamlessly combining important ideas from all of these disparate fields in a manner that manages to be accessible to a wide audience without ever speaking down or boring readers who are already familiar with his subjects. It's a rare book indeed that can transition so effortlessly between discussions of cognitive neuroscience to the Bible to Harry Potter and back.
  
  That's true of both this book and its predecessor (to which I also gave a five-star review). However, I have to say in all honesty, this book manages to escape the all too common pitfalls of sequels and indeed might even surpass the original (though I maintain that it's best read less as a sequel and more as a second volume of a single long work). Admittedly, some of the examples revisit subjects already familiar from the previous book (or from Peterson's other writings or lectures), but these few stories are important enough that they bear repeating. More importantly, the new material is invariably fascinating, filled with historical notes, literary analyses, scriptural interpretations, and--my personal favorites--psychological case studies.
  
  With regard to that last category, this book manages to accomplish something remarkable: it is a self-help book that does not insult the psychologically literate reader. Instead, it draws deeply from the psychological literature (particularly the psychoanalysts, though certainly not limited to them alone) and might even inspire some readers to pursue further study of psychology or even a career in clinical practice.
  
  Most importantly, the book differentiates itself from the bulk of its genre by eschewing the easy and the feel-good in favor of the real and the substantial. There are no trite mantras, no happy cliches, no greeting card philosophies. Instead, there are real--often brutal, but equally often hopeful--psychological insights. This is the kind of self-help book that could genuinely help the reader who heeds its advice, precisely because it offers oft-difficult substance rather than simple but ultimately meaningless pronouncements.
  
  At a time when much of the world seems shallowly moored at best--and completely unmoored at worst--this book is a godsend for those looking to lead a more meaningful (and with any luck, happier) existence. I cannot recommend it (and its predecessor, though you can easily read the books in any order) highly enough.
• 
  Tom Barmaryam

  Ordering your Life shall encompass pre-ordering my book which is, Beyond Order.
  
  Have you cleaned up your room which is Beyond Order?
  
  Have you tried Ordering what is Beyond Order? If not you are way Beyond disorder...
  
  JPB
• 
  Beni Vitai

  Check out the original post on my blog:
  https://certaintyprinciple.co.uk/inde...
  
  Didn't expect it, but this was really good. Challenged me a lot. I'm more liberal in temperament (at least for now), and I tend to struggle with conservative types, and am often quite quick to criticise organisations (especially my religious community) - I'm always ready to make changes, but without inheriting traditions. This taught me to actively seek perspectives different to my own and learn from those who value traditions, as the chances are they understand the meaning of the traditions better than I do, and you can't "break the rules" without understanding the meta-rules (e.g. Jesus healing on the Sabbath).
  
  Another thing it taught me is the importance of commitment. Tbh at times lately I've been burnt out with my Physics degree, as I don't plan to go into the field after my studies; but this book reminded of the importance of commitment, even when the thing we commit to doesn't end up being what we'd imagined it would be. And I see now that this degree is less about the content I learn, and more about the person I become in the process: disciplined, reliable, patient, honest, person of integrity etc. And funnily enough, since framing it that way, I'm enjoying the content of the degree a lot more for its own sake. It's not a means to an end anymore; it's a journey that I'm learning to enjoy.
  
  Lately I've thought how I'm a part of one small religious community out of hundreds of thousands on our planet, which is a small corner of our solar system, which is a small corner of our galaxy which is... etc. So how can I be sure it's the "right one"?
  
  But I realised that's the wrong question; because maybe faith is more like marriage, where you're all in, for better or for worse, and rather than investing energy your whole life wondering whether you married "the right person", you focus your energy on getting to know the other person and building a deeper connection.
  
  And that seems to apply for career and creative pursuits as well: if you've always got your eye on an escape route, then you never get to see the thing/the other in its/their entirety.
  
  I could go on, but what was great about this book is that it didn't allow me to just move on to the next book; it forced me to confront some of my fundamental beliefs (by way of my behaviour), and has already had a positive impact on my relationships and sense of belonging in the world. And that, to me, is what makes a great book.
  
  Long story short: I really liked it, so you might enjoy it too.
• 
  The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha

  I'm a huge Peterson fan (and this new book does not disappoint), but perhaps I should clarify one very small point.
  
  In Rule 8 he describes a painting called "The Immaculate Conception" (by Guido Reni) at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. But he calls it "The Immaculate Conception of Mary."
  
  Perhaps he was trying to clarify a common misunderstanding. People often think that the Immaculate Conception refers to the virginal conception of Jesus. But it actually refers to the conception of Mary, the idea being that she was conceived without original sin.
  
  However, the painting in question does not depict the literal conception of Mary, which would be odd indeed. Instead, it depicts the Assumption of Mary into heaven. You can see for yourself with a simple Google search.
  
  So what gives? Why is the painting called "The Immaculate Conception"? Well, you'd need to ask a Catholic...
  
  You see, although the phrase "Immaculate Conception" refers to the conception of Mary without sin, it is also used as one of the titles of Mary. Case in point is when the Blessed Mother appeared to St Bernadette at Lourdes, France in the mid 1800's. She famously referred to herself as follows: "I am the Immaculate Conception."
  
  In other words, Guido Reni's painting is not a painting of "The Immaculate Conception OF Mary," as Peterson says. Instead, it is a painting of "The Immaculate Conception," which IS Mary.
  
  Now perhaps I am splitting hairs, but hopefully I've done so in a constructive way. Setting aside this one misplaced word, do read this book, reflect deeply on each chapter, and take its lessons to heart.
  
  P.S.
  
  Pay attention to Peterson's book recommendations. I was not disappointed to read "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, "Road to Wigan Pier" by George Orwell, "Crime and Punishment" by Fyodor Dostoevsky, and "The Gulag Archipelago" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn. "The Harvest of Sorrow" by Robert Conquest is next-in-line on my "want to read" list. And in "Beyond Order" he mentions "The Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang and "Ordinary Men" by Christopher Browning (both of which I've since read), among others.
• 
  Tommy Anansi

  As someone who has also tried to write a book whilst being addicted to benzodiazepines, I at least had the good sense to realise no one wanted to read my incoherent garbage ramblings. Mine also did not have astrology influenced pseudo science to justify sexist and racist attitudes-so it automatically would make it much better self-help than whatever perverse abomination this will end up being.
  
  Look, the first one was called quite definitively: 12 Rules for Life. It set out quite clearly, that there were only 12 rules for life. Now, you're telling me I have to follow 12 more rules? A total of 24? When does it end? It all sounds incredibly postmodern to me.
  
  Seriously, I'm sick of this guy appearing on my Youtube recommendations every time I look for anything to do with politics, Star Wars or video games. Him and his little dweeby sideshit Ben Shapino.
• 
  Rory Saunders

  The big daddy of internet controversy has a new book and it's okay.
  
  Firstly I'd like to clarify my views on the author as he's such a polarizing figure. I'm a fan of Jordan Peterson's self-betterment advice, particularly when it comes to psychology, philosophy, and responsibility. I think his advice on nutrition and his forays into politics are ill advised or even absurd.
  
  I don't think he's a horrible transphobe or misogynist, and I don't think he deserves the flak he gets from left wing media. He does associate with a lot of hard-line conservatives, but I'm not sure how much of that is a consequence of the fact that they will interview him without attacking him.
  
  Anyway, the book. I enjoyed the previous 12 rules a lot more than these.
  
  I found that the book, particularly including the context of the last book, was repetitive and overly metaphorical. Some of the passages were insightful and I didn't disagree per se with any of the rules, but more clinical examples and general explanation would have been illuminating. There was way too much chat about chaos dragons and archetypal representations for my taste.
  
  I also think that more of an exploration of his personal struggles with drug addiction would have been more interesting. It's hard to accept someone's life advice when they have been hospitalized for benzo withdrawals for the last 2 years. I don't mean to make light of his struggles, as he has overcome a lot. However, his moralizing about fixing your own life before tackling other people's problems does seem a bit hypocritical given the circumstances.
  
  Overall, the book just wasn't as inspired as the first installment. I wouldn't recommend reading it unless you are a huge fan of his. Despite my low review, I'm glad that he is healthy again and returning to public discourse.
• 
  AttackGirl

  I knew you could do it
  
  Once again I am very pleased with the display and offering from a well read thinking man.
  
  More later after I have time to absorb all. When will Jordon start his organization as suggested. Move up based on reading and mentoring other men, participating.... Come on Jordan.
  
  Second Early Morning Reading
  Well Jordan I made notes on this reading, and will write them without narrative but just blunt comments. I am sure you will know where in the book I am referring as will others with understanding.
  
  Your introduction excuse sets a bad tone to start the book of calling men to better lives of responsibility when you will not face the demon in the mirror openly and honestly. Addiction is addiction, whether that be alcohol, running, eating, drugs, sex, work, etc the sickness calls for honest self evaluation of facing that demon you have chosen to ride when your wife got sick and you allowed your adult daughter to continue your excuse line. Stop it. You chose and are choosing to be the Father for all the men of the world so that also means that you stand up honestly not travel around the country and world running from that DNA demon that is you. Everyone sees and is reading your excuses and attempts of the Hero to run and not face his responsibilities as you call for other men to so stop it now. Speak the language everyone understands. You have no power over addiction and only through help from your higher power are you going to make it so do it honestly not running scare from one doctors to the next in another country you are less known. Can you say Betty Ford!
  
  As much as we discuss archetypal hero’s from the lineage of Joseph Campbell we are still only men only humans so humble yourself you did not make your DNA. If you are going to go on a bender just do it and then get yourself right in the head. Again get the help of others who have faced the demon and they are in that 12 step program.
  
  From all of your reading you do not know we as humans without the inter fear acne of the meat industry should only be eating greens, vegetables and NO MEET. The reason people lose weight on the paleo diet and soon become very ill after is because you need grain to cleanse the protein/poison out of your organs your body was not meant to process meat. It is cancer in the making. Try fasting and get on natural salads. Even the largest cows eat grass!
  
  So trying to get clean while under a coma so you dont have to face the pain of insult of preaching to the world while you decide to Escape the pain of reality. Instead stand up be the man and get a plan. Get a sponsor and Russia in the winter how were the gulags? Did you get you any closer to that plagiarist bread in the pocket storyline stealing Solzhenitsyn? I am surprised you did not catch his theft of Dostoevsky’s work but why would anyone unless they have really read the works and wondered where they had heard about that little piece of pocket bread before. Have you considered visits to the Concentration camps in Europe or Asia? Maybe going to see how the Japanese men really even in todays world treat women. But perhaps you already understand that “Work Makes You Free” as you suggest to all the men to get busy and carry that heavy load. Perhaps the peace loving, Catholic Church supporting, USA freedom and beggar of peace dog loving momma’s boy true hero Hitler knew all along.
  
  So I am glad to see you are applying the Hero motif to the a movie the younger people can grasp but if you research the Aztec ruins you will see the field of play with the two hole/rings and the rules so you will know she did not just create the game but just discussed the men lost their heads real to play.
  https://www.ancient.eu/article/604/th...
  
  Now as far as flying well you would have to read and believe The Acts of Peter, the ancient text of Simon stretching out his hands and flying infront of Nero causing Peter to strike him down.
  
  So is the desire to get the money and fame worth your sobriety, your family, or are you going to play the motif of the troubled martyr why not just cut off an ear?
  
  So I think you could recommend more of your website and reading material so people have a clue what you are discussing which normally in books is a discussion of the book and topic then you lead into what you want to say about it. The book is way to long and comprehensive for the average reader and then throw in the uneducated well then you have trouble since they recommend you write at grade 10 so not to intimidated the readers. So I recommend to just try a different writing template. I am sure your editor was extremely intimidated or would have recommended these basic changes. How did people fair with the 12 rules which is a lot considering they cannot recall the basic 10 commandments let alone the 613 or perhaps you could have taken it to the original text and foundation of the commandments back to King Hammurabi and then the next book a little further back to the oldest known law. I did notice you stated exactly what I recommended to President Trump which was to not tire himself with each thing that comes up as the people test him but to allow the hierarchy to work which is why we have it. The bible is thousands of years of wisdom at the fingertips and all people have to do it read it. We have established: City, County, States, then Federal Govt then maybe a complete briefing to the President, definitely NOT every persons comment is elevated to the exhausted representative of the people. Which is what I have recommended to you, why are you fighting me on this? Get the organization set up. Get the pyramid based on readings and volunteer, responsibility, mentoring, travel, projects etc. The men are waiting and needing and you are making up some storyline lie...as you cry; I don’t know why which is a complete lie, an embarrassment and absurd when you know exactly why. So get busy! Get the people signed up I and started so they feel like they belong to other men, to society to a purpose, to education and awareness and see how fast it grows because you wont be around but your organization if set up properly will be ...forever well for a very long time. Look at the Masons, Lions etc...
  
  And now that you have confirmed your room, office and house is in order well...
  
  You can find me on linkedin if you need suggestions.
• 
  sahand

  world was here before I got here, it doesn’t owe me anything, I owe it !
• 
  Ratnah Tanakoor

  This is probably my most personal review, yet. Maybe it is not even a review. This is the translation of my inner conversation, wrapped by thoughts and feelings, into words. In fact, prior starting this review of Beyond Order: 12 More Rules For Life by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, I went to look for my preceding note on 12 Rules For Life: An Antidote to Chaos which he published a few years back. I startled myself to find that exactly a year ago and a little more precisely, around the same dates of last April, I had finished the book and wrote my truest feelings about it, which you can find here:
  https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
  
  This is one of the rare occasions where I am finding myself to be vulnerably, yet bravely, turning inwards and performing a self-assessment eventually leaving me with that similar feeling to when I would be reading the assignments of a few modules that I completed only one year before moving onto the next level. But then, with Beyond Order, it is not exactly an achievement, but rather, a personal enhancement. More so, when I compare Beyond Order to his preceding book, I can only empathise with the chaos that Dr. Peterson had to endure.
  
  This book contains his insights on how to deal with chaos and care for the human psyche. The further I delved into it, the more this book revealed itself as my own Memento Mori. Told by the man who has been humbled by life's fragility, that is, the inevitability of death and permanent loss, Dr. Jordan Peterson shares the wisdom he gathered throughout that rough phase. I have only witnessed this as an act of kindness coming from a generous side of him as he shares those discernments with the aim for us to courageously face chaos.
  
  This book has hit home for me because less than a month ago, I have lost an uncle whereby I have been struggling with grief and found myself pondering about the void after a perpetual loss. I was also shaken to see my closest ones in deep suffering while in the background the world has been experiencing its own havoc with this Covid-19 Pandemic. While 12 Rules For Life was an endearing shift from my "cheerful nihilist" side to a reconsideration of my value system, Beyond Order has only compelled me to turn within, understand my psyche and identify my inner demons, and practice self kindness: to take care of myself as if I am the person for whom I was responsible for.
  
  I can only be thankful to Dr. Jordan B. Peterson for this book, and I would love to carry on by jotting down my personal notes:
  
  1) Rule 1: Do Not Carelessly Denigrate Social Institutions or Creative Achievement
  I have always possibly taken for granted the extent to which supporting creative outlets is mandatory. It is imperative. Not that this book changed my life, but the scientific reasoning and arguments put forward in this chapter opened my horizons to new perspectives such as recognising its significance on the human psyche as we grow older. I will just put it this way: This was better than the quote "live life with no regrets" hehe.
  
  2) Rule 2: Imagine Who You Could Be, and Then Aim Single-Mindedly at That
  I absolutely hated this chapter and see why I am not biased ? This Rule could have remained just a quote.
  
  3) Rule 3: Do Not Hide Unwanted Things in the Fog
  Ouch. This one was very dark and hit sensitive parts of my core. Know how your parents or other elders tell you that "your grandma wanted this for you and made me promise this ... on her deathbed?" Oh well, I do not want to be that grandma or pass on ancestral trauma. Own up to what you want.
  
  4) Rule 4: Notice that Opportunity Lurks Where Responsibility Has Been Achieved
  This one is a complex one because it is so easy to say "let go, move on". I don't think that the world would have witnessed any cruelty or animosity if letting go and moving on was that easy. If you believe in quotes like that one, I urge you to read Jordan Peterson because life is no fairy tale.
  
  5) Rule 5: Do Not Do What You Hate
  Further to Rule 4, we all think that doing what we love is easy. I am still trying to follow my passion for instance, but arrgh, it is endlessly frustrating because I am breaking myself over and over in order to construct that self that I might eventually love everything about. How easy is that ?
  
  6) Rule 6: Abandon Ideology
  Recommended for anyone who is dogmatic and pedantic, or if you have been a victim of that for growing up in a restricted environment - this is your "live and let live" wrapped with layers of psychological insights about human behaviour and our contribution on to the world.
  
  7) Rule 7: Work as Hard as You Possibly Can on at Least One Thing and See What Happens
  From where I come from, I have always been reminded about this one, then when I was getting there, I was tamed to be part of the system and the working force. If it was not the case for you, then consider yourself lucky. However, I acknowledge it is never too late to get there.
  
  8) Rule 8: Try to Make One Room in Your Home as Beautiful as Possible
  I absolutely loved the importance that Dr. J B Peterson allocated to aesthetics and vibrance in this chapter. This is indeed not to be taken for granted.
  
  9) Rule 9: If Old Memories Still Upset You, Write Them Down Carefully and Completely
  No, I will rather not tell you about my demons. Ouch! I will just say that it got me vulnerable. I cried and I am aware of my healing path. Getting there.
  
  10) Rule 10: Plan and Work Diligently to Maintain the Romance in Your Relationship
  Haha, if you are thinking about receiving dating advices here, then you are wrong. But, the whole importance of building a solid support system is explored here with the beauty of intimacy revealed. I loved it to bits!
  
  11) Rule 11: Do Not Allow Yourself to Become Resentful, Deceitful, or Arrogant
  Ouch. Again - the same feelings as my comments under Rule 9. This one was the longest, and toughest.
  
  12) Rule 12: Be Grateful in Spite of Your Suffering
  Refer to all the Good Morning posts that your aunts send you on WhatsApp family group chats. They are right, haha. Just start the day afresh but be mindful of the other 11 Rules.
  
  Of course, this is not a comprehensive list, every individual experience is unique. We are the same species on the overall genetic grid, yes, but we are all built differently. I have absolutely loved this book because it bears all the psychological baggage of why we have always been asked to turn our attention inwards. The Buddhists are right.
• 
  jt

  Worse than I expected. Says so little with so many words, and each "rule" is just another opportunity to spout the same spiel.
• 
  Catherine⁷

  I cannot fully solidify how and why all of the intimate parts of my life feel so drawn to this book but I connected so deeply to this second addition of Peterson's 12 Rules For Life. This one spoke to me even more personally than the first edition. His first book highlights how too much chaos can be unproductive for our personal growth. This book puts chaos in a different light and emphasizes how it is an essential part of our individual progression if handled properly.
  I've never particularly "liked" self-help books. However, these feel different. Peterson tells me things that I already know. But he does it in such a way that feels very personal and empowering. He also speaks as if there is always more to give. His thoughts are intimate enough that you recognize a part of the conversation is ongoing for different individuals.
  I teared up multiple times reading this book. Maybe this sounds dramatic but I genuinely felt my soul drawn to a higher calling and purpose. Something that is innate that wants to come forth. These past 3 years have been particularly difficult for me and I felt so seen reading this. There's far too much I could write about so I will just leave this review with some quotes I found particularly inspiring:
  - “You are not only something that is. You are something that is becoming — and the potential extent of that becoming also transcends your understanding.”
  - “We need to understand the role of art, and stop thinking about it as an option, or a luxury, or worse, an affection. Art is the bedrock of culture itself. It is the foundation of the process by which we unite ourselves psychologically, and come to establish productive peace with others."
  - “With careful searching, with careful attention, you might tip the balance toward opportunity and against obstacle sufficiently so that life is clearly worth living, despite its fragility and suffering. If you truly wanted, perhaps you would receive, if you asked. If you truly sought, perhaps you would find what you seek. If you knocked, truly wanting to enter, perhaps the door would open. But there will be times in your life when it will take everything you have to face what is in front of you, instead of hiding away from a truth so terrible that the only thing worse is the falsehood you long to replace it with. Do not hide unwanted things in the fog.”
  - “An artist constantly risks falling fully into chaos, instead of transforming it.”
  - “When you are visited by chaos and swallowed up; when nature curses you or someone you love with illness; or when tyranny rends asunder something of value that you have built, it is salutary to know the rest of the story. All of that misfortune is only the bitter half of the tale of existence, without taking note of the heroic element of redemption or the nobility of the human spirit requiring a certain responsibility to shoulder. We ignore that addition to the story at our peril, because life is so difficult that losing sight of the heroic part of existence could cost us everything.”
  - “To have others attend to what you find important or interesting is to validate, first, the importance of what you are attending to, but second, and more crucially, to validate you as a respected center of conscious experience and contributor to the collective world.”
• 
  Lisa

  I like what he says about speaking the truth and being grateful and his whole chapter on relationships is really helpful. But as an Orthodox Christian I find his metaphysical ideas to be quite clumsy. I also think he leans more towards masculine toughness for no good reason except his own particularities. He talks a lot about us needing to be tough and taking on burdens, but talks very little about the dangers of unnecessary over-exposure to a world that's incredibly dangerous and evil, and that by his own admission. He thinks numbness is the same thing as bravery. He hardly talks about the necessity for filtering one's own experiences for the sake of security, innocence, sensitivity, purity and communion. He hardly talks about grace, about meditation and quiet and submitting to one's community or family. He's fascinated by dreams, horrors, totalitarianism, tragedy - when instead it's my opinion that yes, we should in fact look away from these things a lot of the time. At least most of us should. This is not to say we can afford to ignore the possibility of these things fully, of course, but we must also not necessarily look for them like he does (look at how his house is decorated) nor speak them into being or think that being able to tolerate thinking about them is inherently virtuous. I think it's his ideas about psychoanalysis that makes him think that shedding light on something is inherently helpful - but it's not, not inherently. The radical left intuits these criticisms of him, his lack of appreciation for feminine values, and that's part of why he's made so many enemies among them. They hate his focus on competence and dominance. I think his focus is great, especially for men, but JBP would find the soothing balance we all crave in the Church, in the embrace of the Mother of God. He should learn to submit to something higher than himself... and his severe and bitter individualism will melt away like snow on a warm day. I'll keep praying for him.
• 
  Patricia Ayuste

  Puntuación: ⭐⭐⭐ (3/5)
  
  "Más allá del orden" trata sobre llevar una vida satisfactoria logrando equilibrar el orden y el caos de manera que ninguno de ellos te controle. El autor apuesta, entre otros, por salir del victimismo y asumir el sacrificio para progresar, por ser egoísta en las relaciones sociales y seleccionar las personas más positivas que nos ayuden a ser feliz, por una educación más fuerte de los hijos en lugar de consentirlos, por centrarse en los logros personales y dejar de compararse con otros entre otras muchas afirmaciones.
  
  El libro se estructura en torno a 12 principios:
  1. Enderézate y mantén los hombros hacia atrás
  2. Trátate a ti mismo como si fueras alguien que depende de ti
  3. Traba amistad con aquellas personas que quieran lo mejor para ti
  4. No te compares con otro, compárate con quien eras tú antes
  5. No permitas que tus hijos hagan cosas que detestes
  6. Antes de criticar tu vida, asegúrate de tener tu vida en perfecto orden
  7. Dedica tus esfuerzos a hacer cosas con significado, no aquello que más te convenga
  8. Di la verdad, o por lo menos no mientas
  9. Da por hecho que la persona a la que escuchas puede saber algo que tú no sabes
  10. A la hora de hablar, exprésate con precisión
  11. Deja en paz a los chavales que montan en monopatín
  12. Si te encuentras a un gato por la calle, acarícialo
  
  ✔️ Puntos fuertes: lenguaje sencillo, multitud de ideas y ejemplos para entenderlas, conocimientos sobre psicología del autor para desarrollar las teorías.
  
  ❤ Te gustará si: buscas un libro de autoayuda diferente, con una buena documentación detrás e hipótesis bien argumentadas.
• 
  Ed Cunningham

  Not going to write much about this because people in the Goodreads comment section get far too political and I’ll save them the upset.
  
  The book was good, some parts not so, but the good outweighs the bad 4/1.
  
  Full review on A Need To Read Monday 15th March
• 
  Jacob Hackett

  For reasons that are beyond me, Peterson is often branded as a hard right-winger by those who disagree with his views. After reading both of his 12-Rules books and hours of his online lecture series' it is clear that people have been misguided by false information about him.
  
  As a self proclaimed classical liberal, Peterson offers a case for both brands of political thinking here in beyond order chapter XI "conservatives are necessary for maintaining things the way they are when everything is working and change might be dangerous. Liberals by contrast, are necessary for changing things when they are no longer working. It is no easy task, however, to determine when something needs to be preserved or when it needs to be transformed. That is why we have politics, if we are fortunate, and the dialogue that accompanies it, instead of war, tyranny, or submission. It is necessary for us to argue vociferously and passionately about the relative value of stability versus change, so that we can determine when each is appropriate and in what doeses."
  
  Much of the advice given in the book comes back round to the idea of taking responsibility, as a young man in a world somewhat obsessed with rights, it is surprisingly refreshing to be told that you could take responsibility and act in accordance with your conscience and your potential, rather than actively or ommisively avoiding responsibilities that you know wont serve the best interests of your fututre self.
  
  Peterson has this amazing talent of putting into words what often you know to be true but have never found the words to articulate, so i'll end with possible my favourite piece of advice from rule IV "...but you persevere, and discriminate, judge, and decide exactly why what you did was wrong, and you start to to understand, by contrast , what might have been right. you decide that it is a partner, despite its adversarial form... an idea begins to take shape: I am going to live my life properly. I am going to aim at the good. I am going to aim at the highest good I can possibly manage... you are no longer a house divided against itself you are no longer so easy to dissuade or discourage. your resolution trumps your nihilism and dispair. The struggle you have had with your own tendency to doubt and dissimulate protects you against the unwarranted and cynical criticisms of others."
• 
  Ana Avila

  Siempre disfruto leer/escuchar a Jordan. En un momento estoy “sí, sí, síííí” y al otro le estoy preguntando “¿pero de qué estás hablando?”.
  
  —
  
  Las estrellas dejan mucho qué desear a la hora de evaluar un libro. La manera en que tú interpretas 1, 2, 3, 4 o 5 estrellas probablemente será muy distinta a la manera en que yo interpreto 1, 2, 3, 4 o 5 estrellas.
  
  Aquí va la «traducción» del sistema de estrellas de Ana al español:
  
  ⭐️ - Malo
  ⭐️ ⭐️ - Me costó terminar
  ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ - Bueno
  ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ - Muy bueno
  ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ - Me cambió la vida / No pude soltarlo
• 
  Branko Nikovski

  A Robin Sharma's book edited with a thesaurus. And of course.... a PhD vanity.
  
  The first star is for my optimism to give him another shot after the first ''great'' book.
  The second star is for my persistence to read it and finish it in 6 hours.
  
  The lack of the other three stars is because reading his two books, I consider him a pseudo-Jungian trying to be a metasocialogist through Hollywood movies/cartoons as archetypes and Marxism as the arch enemy of these archetypes.
  Adding some Bible stories and mythologies [I don't think that he's read Joseph Campbell] in this pseudometasociological ''research'' is the perfect ingredient to be loved and bought by not only right wing, but also by the religious people who hate left wing, by leftwingers who flirt with religion, neoMarxists who read 'Marx for dummies', the grandchildren of neoPlatonists who adore Norman Vincent Peele, Napoleon Hill and Zig Ziglar, nihilists who are nihilists because they thought that Nietzsche was a nihilist[they never read Nietzsche's work in depth, JR often quotes Nietzsche ergo they love JR or Nietzsche or both, maybe they will read JR or Nietzsche, maybe some day. If you tell them that Nietzsche criticizes nihilism they will consider you as a jerk, if you tell them that JR criticizes nihilism through by reading and quoting Nietzsche they will consider you a philistine:)].
  
  I like his YT university lectures, especially about Dostoevsky, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche and Solschenizyn.
  He's a good teacher and a good storyteller, maybe a decent psychiatrist, poor sociologist, disastrous as philosopher. But a great guru for the masses. People adore him or hate him. He cannot be ignored.
  
• 
  Scott

  Fantastic book again from Dr. Peterson. Definitely as good as the first, the lessons in the sequel being all the more poignant knowing the obstacles he and his family have faced the passed couple years. Cannot recommend this book more for anyone who is actively trying to improve their life and also for those who just need some extra self reflection. Like the first book, the rules themselves are simple and common sense, but that is exactly the wisdom the world needs now.
• 
  Alex Whigham

  Even better than the first book. Jordan Peterson does an excellent job at fully articulating and conveying deep and complex archetypal themes, drawing on timeless stories to illustrate the underlying structure of reality from which meaning manifests itself. Also includes one of the the most descriptive and understandable conceptualisations of what ideology is and how it maps onto religious structures that I’ve come across.
• 
  Emma Sea

  What a grind to get through :(