| Title | : | Chapterhouse: Dune (Dune, #6) |
| Author | : | |
| Rating | : | |
| ISBN | : | 0593098277 |
| ISBN-10 | : | 9780593098271 |
| Language | : | English |
| Format Type | : | Paperback |
| Number of Pages | : | 624 |
| Publication | : | First published April 1, 1985 |
| Awards | : | Prometheus Award Best Libertarian Science Fiction Novel (1986) |
The desert planet Arrakis, called Dune, has been destroyed. The remnants of the Old Empire have been consumed by the violent matriarchal cult known as the Honored Matres. Only one faction remains a viable threat to their total conquest--the Bene Gesserit, heirs to Dune's power.
Under the leadership of Mother Superior Darwi Odrade, the Bene Gesserit have colonized a green world on the planet Chapterhouse and are turning it into a desert, mile by scorched mile. And once they've mastered breeding sandworms, the Sisterhood will control the production of the greatest commodity in the known galaxy--the spice melange. But their true weapon remains a man who has lived countless lifetimes--a man who served under the God Emperor Paul Muad'Dib....
Chapterhouse: Dune (Dune, #6) Reviews
-
Introductory notes:
Some initial notes for building my impressions of Dune where book references are denoted by D1-D6 for the 6 volumes of the trilogy - warning - there are some spoilers below, but once again if you have read this far into the Dune series, they are hardly spoilers because you already know all of this, or most of it.
Royal Houses
Atreides
Harkonnen
Corinno
It is interesting to me that despite the massive scale of Dune, it remains a tale concerning really only three families (initially) competing for power.
Power Bases
Bene Geserit (female)
Bene Tleilaxu (male -females reduced to living axlotl tanks for breeding (D5)
Ix (unknown, only contact with male ambassadors)
Honored Matres (female - returning Bene Geserit from the Scattering hellbent on destruction)
There are also only three extra-royal organizations (and later a fourth) that operate within the walls of the first 6 books. Of course, each of these (yet not always described in a homogeneous amount of detail) are incredibly complex societies with interesting dynamics which made for great reading.
Religions
Zensunni (overall fusion of Islam and Zen Buddhism which is sort of the ambient religion across the Known Universe)
Sufi (closely related to Zensunni - very close to Bene Tleilaxu core beliefs)
Freemen Worship of Leto II / the God Emperor / the Tyrant (for Bene Geserit) / Guldur (for Honored Matres)
Orange Catholic (remnants of Roman Catholic faith)
Note: The Bene Geserit, while originally derived at least partially from Roman Catholic Monastical practices views religion as a tool for manipulating the masses and opportunistically plays religions off each other)
I liked the mashup of Zen Buddhism and Islam and found that it was a creative way of projecting out human development. One should note that - other than perhaps futars late in D5 and D6), no aliens are in the Known Universe so the humans are all descendants of a diaspore from Terra in the distant past. The idea being that the Zen Buddhists and those of the Muslim faith blended together whereas - apparently - the Roman Catholics split into Bene Geserit and then disappeared. I found no mention at all of polytheist beliefs such as Hinduism or Dualism beliefs such as Taoism.
Armies
Saudukar (males from Salusa Secundus in service of Harkonnens and Shaddam IV of the Corrino family)
Fish Speakers (females from Rakis in serivce of Leto II)
Honored Matres (females with mix of various Scattering populations with sexual skills honed to an extreme but also the physical prowess of the Bene Geserit but with extreme violence and no regret or pity)
Bene Geserit (females with extreme martial arts skills and body control)
Some of the most exciting writing in Dune is of course the battle scenes and it is interesting how the elite forces switch from all-male to all-female on the advent of Leto II. The Honored Matres are pretty badass (and very scary) and it was awesome how Miles Teg evolved into a godlike fighter before his doom on Dune.
Planets
Dune / Arrakis / Rakis (home to the Freemen, planet of the Sandworms, sole natural source of melange in Known Universe)
Caladan (home planet to Atreides clan)
Giedi Prime / Gammu (home to Harkonnens)
Salusa Secundus (prison planet - previous home to House Corrino)
Hidden Chapterhouse planet (home to Bene Geserit)
Tleilax (home to Tleilaxu)
Ix (home to Ixians)
Junction(s) (waystations for the Guild Navigators)
I was frustrated that we never visited Is or Tleilax and learned precious little about any planets besides Dune, Giedi Prime/Gammu and Chapterhouse. One would think that in a galaxy of billions and trillions that there would be more planets, but I suppose that Frank needed to simplify somewhere.
Bene Geserit hierarchy
Mother Superior
Reverend Mother
Breeding Mothers
Acolytes (1st Degree - 3rd Degree)
The BG became a sort of mashup of the military and a female monastic order that was interesting to read about. Unfortunately, there are many revelations for which the reader has to wait for D6 to learn about.
Famous Mentats
Thufir Hawat (D1)
Miles Teg (D5, D6)
Duncan Idaho's last ghola becomes both Mentat and Zensunni philosopher (D6)
Like for the BG, we learn only scattered things about mentats until late in the series. The idea of replacing "thinking machines" after the Butlerian Jihad with human computers is fascinating and one of my favorite innovations in the Dune Universe.
Immortality Strategies
Bene Geserit- selective breeding, Others Memories, all powered by mélange addiction
Tleilaxu - axlotl tanks (deformed females) with selective breeding
Major Historical Moments
Before Dune
Butlerian Jihad - end of “thinking” machines, calculations monopolized by Guildsmen, Mentats and Bene Geserit
Creation by BG of Miossionaria Protecta
Establishment of BG Archives (?)
Birth of preborn Paul and his sister Ayla (the Abomination) to Leto and Jessica due to spice addiction. Jessica had disobeyed the BG and had a son first rather than a daughter which is a massive rock in the BG genetic pond for which we see the ripples over 5000 years of Known Universe history over the 6 books.
Dune
Paul Atreides passes Bene Geserit “box” test by Mother Superior - first male ever to pass the test
Move of Atreides family from Caladan to Dune under Emperor Shaddam IV’s direction ostensibly to protect the spice trade
Betraval and Assassination of Leto I
Flight of Paul to Fremen and their acceptance of him as their messiah, the Muad’dib
Victory of Paul Atreides Maud’dib over Shaddam IV and Baron Harkonnen at Arakeen using worm-fremen army and the Voice and death of first Duncan Idaho, Lady Jessica, Gurney Halleck, etc
Dune Messiah
Birth of preborn twins Leto II and Ghamina to Paul Maud’dib and Fremen Chola
Assasination atttempts on Leto II and Ghamina
Death/disappearance of Paul Muad’dib
Children of Dune
Abomination / possession of Ayla by spirit of Baron Harkonnen
Appearance of Preacher
Destruction of Ayla
Leto II assumes a Golden Path to save humanity by fusing with the sand trout and becoming Shai-Hallud / Shaitan / God Emperor
God Emperor of Dune
Peaceful reign of 3000 years under Leto II
Creation of Fish Speakers
Allowance of Aix technology
Deliverance of Duncan Idaho gholas by Tleilaxu to Leto II
Leto II killed during festival
Heretics of Dune
2000+ years of Scattering
Writing and distribution of Zaire ideas Manifesto (ghost written by HR Odrade daughter of Teg and future Mothre Superior)
Tleilaxu murder each of the delivered Duncan Idahos until last one
Appearance of Sheeana with power over worms on Rakis near Sietch
Waking up of Duncan Idaho by Teg and failure of Lucille to bind him to Bene Geserit
Breeding of Duncan Idaho ghola and Honored Matre Murbella
Conquering of Gammu by HR
Destruction of Dune by HR and death of Teg
Chapterhouse: Dune
Hunting of Bene Geserit by Honored Matres
Transfer from Lucille to Rebecca
Secret Israel
Agony of Murbella
Battle of Junction
Escape of ghola Duncan Idaho and Sheeana
And now for my review of Chapterhouse: Dune
Wow, that was quite a tumultuous and somewhat anti-climactic end to the Dune saga. I will write a long post here with plenty of quotes summing up all my Dune impressions for those who wish to read them.
"When she thought of the largely passive non-Bene Desert populace 'out there', Odrade sometime envied them. They were permitted their illusions. What a comfort. You could pretend your life was forever, that tomorrow would be better, that the gods in heaven watched you with care." (p. 49)
Odrade is the daughter of Bandar Mentat (and overall badass mofo) Miles Teg who becomes Mother Superior of the Bene Geserit following the events at the end of Heretics of Dune. She has a deadly standoff with the Honored Matres which dominates Chapterhouse (the hidden BG headquarters planet). She is a great character - full of depth and insight such as the quote above. The Bene Geserit thanks to melange and some genetic engineering created a form of immortality which is threatened with extinction by the Matres flooding into the Old Empire from The Scattering (see God Emperor and Heretics) and Odrade's strategy is a fascinating one to see being put together and then executed.
"The presence of Others Within who subtracted none of her attention from what went on around her had filled her with awe. We call it. Simuflow. Speaker had said. Simuflow multiplies your awareness." (p. 60)
Chapterhouse opened a whole new line of inquiry into the fate of Israel with the characters of the Rabbi and Rebecca - the few last remnants of the diaspora now on a galactic scale. Rebecca is pulled into the Bene Geserit in order to save the Others Within that were massacred on Lampadas by the Honored Matres. While this is an interesting interlude, it is a little frustrating that Herbert throws this in in only the last book of the series and dies before developing this idea any further. The primary interest of this interlude was in fact a bit more information on how the Bene Geserit functioned with the Others Within which was helpful in better understanding them.
"God formed me to deceive the powindah! His slight, childlike appearance was formed in a grey skin whose metallic pigments blocked scanning probes. His diminutive shape distracted those who saw him and hid the powers he had accumulated in serial ghola incarnations." (p. 84)
The last Tleilaxu, Scytale, was an interesting character. Tleilaxu having been destroyed by the Honored Matres, Scytale is a prisoner on the no-ship on Chapterhouse. Perhaps Herbert sensed the end coming because the potential he built into this character (especially the whispering which was supposed to serve as a trigger for the ghola of Duncan Idaho) was never exploited in this book. That being said, he is fairly one-dimensional and serves as almost an albeit morbid comic relief.
"Honored Matre assumptions about control fascinated Lucilla. You controlled your universe; you did not balance with it. You did not train yourself to sense your own subtle responses, you produced muscles (forces, powers) to overcome everything you defined as an obstacle. Were these women blind?" (p. 100)
Lucilla was one of the most enigmatic and powerful characters in the later Dune trilogy I found. Here she is prisoner to the HM and studying them hoping to get a message to Odrade in time for the BG to prepare a defense. It was interesting to compare the BG before Paul/Leto II/The Scattering (all powerful, mystical, and mega fighters who subjugated emotion completely and sex as a precise weapon and the BG who viewed sex only as reproductive function.
The key issue in Dune is the disruptive impact of LOVE which ignites the first crisis in D1 when Lady Jessica falls in love with Leto I and rather than giving birth to a girl as her Bene Geserit masters would expect her to do, gives birth to Paul who then exhibits characteristics of the Kwisatz Haderach and becomes Maud'dib to the Freemen when he survives the BG test and achieves prescience. Paul’s love for Chani of the Fremen dooms his political mariage to Princess Irulan and it is Chani that bears his two children, the preborn twins Ghamina and Leto II, soon to be God Emperor and to set humanity on the Golden Path. The next crisis occurs because Leto II loves humanity and wants them to survive. The last crisis is when Duncan Idaho and Murbella fall in love and do not fulfill (once again) BG plans. Unfortunately, we never really get to the end to know whether "love conquers all" or just fucks everything up.
Fantastic and legendary read. Please comment!
[UPDATE] I am looking forward to Denis Villeneuve's Dune in October 2021. The previews I have seen so far seem to be quite coherent with respect to the book. I was a fan of Lynch's Dune and am curious to see what Villeneuve does with this one. Feel free to comment below.
[UPDATE 2] It has been a few months, but personally I felt that Villeneuve’s Dune was respectful both of the spirit of the original books and of Lynch’s cult classic movie.
Fino's Dune Reviews
Dune
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune
God Emperor of Dune
Heretics of Dune
Chapterhouse: Dune -
*** 2022 reread –
Love this series and the Denis Villeneuve film has only intensified my admiration for Frank Herbert’s vision and literary accomplishment.
I published the below review seven years ago when I finished this the last of Frank Herbert’s “original six” and the last published before his death in 1986. I’ve amended some of my earlier critical language as I now LOVE! all of the series an YES! I will read them on a train, and in a plane, and with a fox and in a box, I LOVE Dune Sam I Am!
Chapterhouse: Dune was the last Dune novel that Frank Herbert completed and published before his death in 1986. Though he had written notes and the series would continue with his son Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson, most Dune fans regard the six Frank Herbert publications as the “Original Series”. After many books written since his death, pundits have stated that the only notes left is a post it note that says, "write more books."
In this installment the direction taken in Heretics of Dune, the fifth book in the series, published in 1984, continues with the Bene Gesserit front and center. Heretics had followed a thousand five hundred year hiatus following the events in the fourth novel, God Emperor of Dune(published in 1981) and had taken a new direction, resurrecting much of the intensity and charisma of the original. The reign of the God Emperor, Leto II, son of Paul Muab ‘Dib Atreides, has ended and the story has been taken up with political and economic intrigue between the Bene Gesserit and the Bene Tleilax and a new power, the Honored Matres. Chapterhouse involves action between the Bene Gesserit and the rising power of the Honored Matres.
Some of the writing in Chapterhouse: Dune demonstrates Herbert’s best writing. “Power attracts those who are corruptible” muses Herbert and his Dune work represents an accomplished skill that highlights his remarkable powers of observation, detail and complex characterization. “Truth is an empty cup” is another line that I enjoyed and which provoked much thought.
If I was asked for a recommendation, I cannot endorse the original 1965 publication higher, it is in a rare atmosphere, populated by such classics as Fahrenheit 451, Childhood's End and 1984. If you loved Dune, by all means read the original series and even the other books by Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson.
So … what to read now?
A discussion of what to read next by personalities of Lyn’s READER MIND.
Frank Herbert purist: That’s it, stick with what Frank wrote, go back and reread the original Dune. Then read the original six over and over again until you die.
All things Dune fan: I agree with rereading over and over, always keep a Dune book on your currently reading stack, but you need to reread Hunters now, that cliffhanger at the end of Chapterhouse needs to be sorted out!
Goodreads Reviewer: Over and over? Guys, we’ve got a lot of other books to read besides Dune and we’re trying to read books from more diverse writers and genres. Right? Isn’t that our goal?
Lawyer: We’re really busy at work right now, we need easy to read, simple stuff. Stick with the graphic novels and comic strips, Herbert is great but too heavy and too provocative, we need easy reading in our very sparse leisure reading time.
All things Dune fan: You’ve still got some other Herbert-Anderson books to read, Frank’s vision has been expanded and you want to read them all!
Frank Herbert purist: Abomination! Frank wrote six Dune books. Period. That’s the Dune universe.
Self Help reader: You also need to reread Covey’s Seven Habits –
Everyone else: SHUT UP!!!
Goodreads reviewer: OK, let’s get back to our international reading and then we’ll come back to which Dune book to take on next. Also, we need to read –
All things Dune fan: LET’S DO THIS!!! HUNTERS! LYYYYYYYYYYYYYNNNNNNNNYYYYYYY JENKINS!!!
All things Dune fan crashes through the door and slams into Hunter of Dune, the seventh in the expanded series and sequel to Chapterhouse for a reread.
Goodreads Reviewer: All things Dune went in! OK, let’s follow him.
Frank Herbert purist: Abomination!
-
Re-read 8/5/21:
Just to be very clear here: Frank Herbert's originals are absolute classics of SF. It's not just Dune -- although that one is superior to the rest -- but all six of these books that should be put on a pedestal.
That being said, the density of ideas, the wonderful interlocked wisdom wafting from the pages, the stunning panorama of future history make an absolutely thrilling ride. This one has a lot less action than, say, Heretics, but the reveals and the implications are enough to utterly transform our understanding of the entire Dune universe that came before.
Unfortunately, I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. Frank was taken from us too soon. All the various ideas and directions did not finalize in this book. We have a very open-ended conclusion that annoys me as much now as when I was 14-years-old. We need the amazing combination of the BG and the HM, the exodus, and the eventual blow-out that would have come with the inclusion of the thinking machines that drove the HM to near-extinction.
That's why we needed those two extra books by FH's son and KJA.
And what we got was nothing near what we needed.
It doesn't change the brilliance of this book or the ones before. It just makes me wish that someone like Brandon Sanderson had swooped in to finish this series in the same way that he brilliantly finished the WoT series.
*sigh*
Original Review:
As with much of Frank Herbert's other writing,
Dune excluded, this one is a novel notable and worthy on the realm of ideas. He never stints on ideas. He might get slightly sluggish and lose the thread of the plot while we plod around in the ideas, but there are always great scenes and always great blow-out reveals. The original classic of Dune has none of these faults. It is a classic and imminently readable from page one and is still my favorite book of all time.
So what about this one? Is it worth reading for everyone else? It's book 6 in the very impressive and automatically Epic series that encapsulates over five thousand years from the events of Dune, ending with the centric viewpoint of the Bene Gesserit after the tyranny of Paul's son and the great diaspora that scattered all the peoples of the galaxy after his death.
The planet Dune is effectively destroyed at the end of Heretics of Dune and only a single sandworm and some sandtrout were lifted from the planet to be the seed of a new place where the Spice can be produced. This is especially important after the Bene Tleilaxu were also destroyed or partially submerged under the auspices of the Gesserit after the Honored Matres rampaged through the known universe.
This book takes up the new clones of Teg and Duncan, but mostly revolves around the conflicts between the Bene Gesserit and the Honored Matres. Each side has taken prisoners and tries to subvert the captives. The Bene Gesserit are more than slightly more successful at the task than the "knock-off Bene Gesserit" Honored Matres, despite the others being wildly more dominant and deadly in combat.
What we have is a novel that reminds me a great deal of the later Wheel of Time books with Egwaine in the White Tower, only, I have to point out that Chapterhouse Dune came out first. :) We know that Jordan was a big fan of Dune and stole a tone of great ideas from Herbert, so this shouldn't be too surprising, but rather than a 5-6 enormous spread of books, Herbert accomplishes a success-from-below story in a single novel. :)
The teaching and the subversion is the real main story in Chapterhouse. Don't let the cool space battles and space-opera fool you. This is a story of fantastic women doing fantastic things, the undisputed masters of the galaxy, and a massive conflict between the returning diaspora offshoot of the Bene Gesserit and the mainline that stayed behind.
On that level, it's still a great tale despite my other issues with it.
Anything this complex and full of great observations about human nature, politics, and even love should not be discounted lightly. It's super dense with fantastic ideas on every page and even though it will never be considered a standalone classic, it's a very, very worthy novel to read. Especially in conjunction with
Heretics of Dune.
And, I assume,
Hunters of Dune and
Sandworms of Dune carry on the tradition well since I'm going to plow through them and continue the storyline set up here. :) The cliffhanger at the end of Chapterhouse was a doozy. :)
Let's see if Herbert's son and Anderson make the ideas into something more traditional, eh? I can hope. They've had a lot of practice in the universe before attempting the big one. Herbert's death put a stop to the story and most of us fans were extremely upset. Hell, I remember reading this book the first time in '89 and wishing I could have written the sequel to it. I can't be alone in this. :) I can only hope that expectations live up, etc., etc. -
4.25 ⭐️
I’m devastated we will never get Frank’s true sequel. I’m dying to know exactly where he’s take the story -
Buddy read with
Athena!
“Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.”
The Honoured Matres have returned with their full strength from the Scattering, and their fleets are assaulting all the worlds that once made up the old Empire at the core of the universe. The nobility and the Ixians have fallen, and the one force resisting the relentless invasion is the now legendary sisterhood of the Bene Gesserit.
Heretics of Dune ended with one of the most dramatic and unexpected plot twists in science fiction, and this sequel takes up where the last book left off. Unfortunately, the first eighty percent of this book were a total chore to get through. Little or nothing happened, the setting and the characters were unremarkable and dull, and not even the writing was particularly good. After having read those eighty percent, I was more or less ready to give this book a one-star rating.
Even so, I'm raising the whole book to three stars based solely on the short part in the end. Frank Herbert has once again demonstrated his ability to write a boring book where nothing happens and then turn everything on its head in the end. In an impressively fascinating way, I might add. I was almost tempted to give up on the series on occasion while reading this, but after reading the ending there's absolutely no way I could do that. -
Chapterhouse: Dune (Dune #6), Frank Herbert
The situation is desperate for the Bene Gesserit as they find themselves the targets of the Honored Matres, whose conquest of the Old Empire is almost complete. The Matres are seeking to assimilate the technology and developed methods of the Bene Gesserit and exterminate the Sisterhood itself. Now in command of the Bene Gesserit, Mother Superior Darwi Odrade continues to develop her drastic, secret plan to overcome the Honored Matres.
The Bene Gesserit are also terraforming the planet Chapterhouse to accommodate the all-important sandworms, whose native planet Dune had been destroyed by the Matres. Sheeana, in charge of the project, expects sandworms to appear soon. The Honored Matres have also destroyed the entire Bene Tleilax civilization, with Tleilaxu Master Scytale the only one of his kind left alive. In Bene Gesserit captivity, Scytale possesses the Tleilaxu secret of ghola production, which he has reluctantly traded for the Sisterhood's protection. The first ghola produced is that of their recently deceased military genius, Miles Teg. The Bene Gesserit have two other prisoners on Chapterhouse: the latest Duncan Idaho ghola, and former Honored Matre Murbella, whom they have accepted as a novice despite their suspicion that she intends to escape back to the Honored Matres.
تاریخ نخستین خوانش: روز بیست و چهارم ماه مارس سال 2019 میلادی
عنوان: دفترخانه: کتاب ششم تلماسه؛ نویسنده: فرانک هربرت؛
اوضاع برای «بنه گسریت» ناامید کننده است، زیرا آنها خود را اهداف ماترس محترم میدانند، که فتح امپراتوری قدیم تقریباً کامل است. ماترس به دنبال جذب فناوری و روشهای توسعه یافته «بنه گسریت» و نابود کردن خود خواهران است. در حال حاضر به فرماندهی «بنه گسریت، مادر برتر داروی اودراد به تدوین برنامه محرمانه و مخفیانه خود برای غلبه بر افتخارات ماترس ادامه میدهد. ...؛ ا. شربیانی -
Finally I ended this unbearable book. Had been a real penance, a hardship. I recognize that Dune is a classic in the genre but just the first book. The rest of the saga is incredibly boring and full of emptiness, the worst of the philosophical reasoning fills the book, a pomposity and a senseless discourse. One of the worst books I have ever read. Such a pity
-
The epic conclusion to the original series - and it kinda ends on a cliffhanger! *rips out hair*
I'm very much looking forward to Villeneuve's interpretation of Dune that will be shown in theaters this year so I decided to not only read the original book but also the rest of the series.
Ten years have passed since Arrakis has been virtually destroyed in the previous book. Yep, it's gone. Well, not GONE, but it is dead, the surface uninhabitable thanks to the honored Matres and the tech they brought with them.
Sheeana, Duncan and Teg's daughter Odrade (now Mother Superior to the Bene Gesserit) have managed to flee with a sandworm and a handful of sandtrouts. So the plan, now, is to turn the planet Chapterhouse into a desert where they'll breed more sandworms so the spice will flow once more and there will never be such a threat to prescience and space travel ever again.
This plan is somewhat complicated by the fact that the Honoured Matres are zipping through what has remained of the Empire, eliminating any and all Bene Gesserit planets, killing the nobles as well as the Ixians. Oh, by the way, there is only ONE Tleilaxu left, Scytale (saved from Arrakis when the others fled), their technology and knowledge therefore all but gone, too. So everyone is hiding, basically, while trying to bring together everything they have for one last attack.
Meanwhile, on Chapterhouse, a ghola of Miles Teg is bred and raised (weirdly, he's calling his own biological daughter "mother") and while I was glad to have him back, I'm not sure I'm a big fan of everyone just being brought back from the dead willy-nilly (fresh blood, in my opinion, would be better).
Sheeana, for the most part, is overseeing the afore-mentioned project to create more sandtrouts and more sandworms but she doesn't really agree with Odrade's overall approach which leads to her and Duncan forming plans of their own.
I must say that after the big bang at the end of the last book, I was somewhat disappointed at the lack of equal action for about the first 3/4 of this final volume. Sure, the conversations, meetings and planning were important but it also felt anti-climactic. I wanted the last remaining forces to strike back immediately and teach those invaders what is what. *lol*
What was a nice surprise was the introduction and/or explanation of certain tech, both encountered before and new. It was also a dead-giveaway. *shudders*
Moreover, we finally got further details about the motivations of certain characters (much needed since we didn't get many answers in the previous book).
And apart from the lessons about trauma we had to witness time and time again, it begged the question of what threat was coming towards the Empire.
I had a theory (and had it confirmed by Brad for whom this is the umpteenth re-read) and must say that it is THE proof of the author's mastery. He didn’t just keep going to make money, he had a plan from the beginning or this wouldn't have worked, we had all the hints strewn across all volumes (it's what I picked up on here and there) and now, the demons come home to roost! We did get a glimpse at the very end of the book with world-shattering implications but no confirmation / actual confrontation yet (it's maddening).
The question throughout the book was: are the Bene Gesserit depraved and evil (though at least not as badly as the Honoured Matres) so Sheeana and Duncan were correct or are they the only possible bastion against whatever is coming (especially now that )?
This on top of the ever-present question of: Is this all still the Golden Path?
I'm still not 100% sold on what is coming (yes, I know it after I asked due to the implications in this "final" volume). I mean, - seems a bit too simplistic. Yes, throughout all books we were following genetic engineering, perfecting humans, but shouldn't we aim for the perfection of our species instead of ?! What will that lead to? Will ?! Oh, but how much I would have loved to see the final conflict as written by Frank Herbert! Alas.
LOTS to think about while reading and after concluding the series. I don't think I'll read the books that haven't been written by Frank Herbert himself. I know Brian Herbert and his co-writer followed original notes and cornerstones at least with the next 2 books, but it still doesn't feel right. And despite there being a cliffhanger here, I'll just fill in the gaps myself.
Last but not least, let me thank my buddy-reader,
Brad, for this epic quest through time and space. I had a blast! -
Chapterhouse: Dune opens with Mother Superior Darwi Odrade's excitement over the birth of her father, the legendary Miles Teg or rather- a Teg ghola. With Dar's top advisers by her side: the withdrawn Tam and the violent Bell, the novel doesn't waste any time in setting the scene or showing us the principal characters within the Bene Gesserit. After being suppressed by the Divine Emperor/Tyrant, the Bene Gesserit are ready to take on more responsibility and become the key players in Dune's universe again. The Reverend Mothers and Mother Superior are first to 'take the stage' and this is no accident. The sisterhood is in grave danger, threatened to extinction by blood-thirsty Honored Matres. Upon returning from the Scattering, possibly fleeing from something, the Honored Matres have been casually conducting genocide and war in the Old Empire, sometimes destroying billions without much thought. Can one of the unusual Mother Superiors, the romantic Dar, be a match for such a thread?
Besides the above mentioned characters (Teg, Dar, Tam and Bell), there are other important characters finding themselves on Chapterhouse: Dune, such as the youngest ever Mother Superior Sheena and an unusual couple: an imprisoned Honored Matre Murbella, now in training to become a Mother Superior and a Duncan Idaho ghola hiding many talents (that sisterhood is suspicious of). There is also the last Tleilaxu Master Scytale, apparently the only one of his kind left alive after the Honored Matres destroyed his native planet and all of the know Tleixahu civilization. He is now imprisoned by the Bene Gesserit and forced to give up his secrets slowly.
Like in some other Herbert's novels, the planet itself is almost a character. The sisterhood is terraforming the planet Chapterhouse to Dune because they need sandworms (as always the spice must flow). With Dune being destroyed, Chapterhouse must become a new home to sandworms. Sheeana leads this project because of her unique connection with the worms, but she also presents a thread to her sisterhood because of her religious potential.
There are many other interesting and powerful characters that emerge as the story evolves. For example, when the sisterhood's Lampadas planet is destroyed by the Honored Matres, we are introduced to a fascinating character of Reverend Mother Lucilla, carrying with herself the minds of millions of Reverend Mothers. Lucilla seeks refuge with the Jews on planet Gamu. The introduction of Jews in Chapterhouse: Dune is an interesting concept as is their connection with the sisterhood. There seems to be mutual respect between the two. Lucilla meets a wild Reverend mother among the Jews- Rebecca. This is another female character that has fascinated me. Is Rebecca Bene Gesserit or not? To what extent does her memory influence Rebecca? Many fascinating questions there, not all of them answered, but that doesn't matter. I feel like this is a novel that calls us to be active readers and ask questions ourselves, not just to observe events. In words of Darwi Odrade:
...“Confine yourself to observing and you always miss the point of your life. The object can be stated this way: Live the best life you can. Life is a game whose rules you learn if you leap into it and play it to the hilt. Otherwise, you are caught off balance, continually surprised by the shifting play. Non-players often whine and complain that luck always passes them by. They refuse to see that they can create some of their own luck.
When I reread Chapterhouse: Dune in January, I realized how little I actually cared about the plot of the novel. Not that the plot isn't good, the 'action' that takes place is well orchestrated but I principally cared about the characters, their monologues and dialogues- and the topics they discussed. Indeed, I didn't even recall some small details despite the fact that Chapterhouse: Dune is a novel I reread many times, more than any other book in the Dune series. What impresses me the most about this book are the philosophical parts of it, often discussed in monologues and dialogues. The careful examination of power and politics, in particular, is one of the strengths of this novel. As Honored Matres and Bene Gesserit try to learn more one about another, there is much talk of democracy, power and governments. The Spider Queen leading the Honored Matres is another strong female character and it is hard not to be fascinated by her, despite her obvious cruelty. As Bene Gesserit sisters try to communicate one with another, with themselves or with outsiders, there is much talk of power. ...“Power attracts the corruptible. Suspect any who seek it.” Sometimes they repeat and echo lessons learned in the previous Dune novels, but often they get more specific and speak of governments and traps of power in more detail. How fascinating are those moments when power and laws are so discussed. Not many writers are capable of such subtle analysis, of creating a detailed future society we can teach us so much about our own society and its flaws: ... “All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.”
“Clinging to any form of conservatism can be dangerous. Become too conservative and you are unprepared for surprises. You cannot depend on luck. Logic is blind and often knows only its own past. Logic is good for playing chess but is often too slow for the needs of survival.
“Give me the judgment of balanced minds in preference to laws every time. Codes and manuals create patterned behavior. All patterned behavior tends to go unquestioned, gathering destructive momentum.
For most part, Chapterhouse: Dune revolves around female characters. Two societies of women are at war. However, there are two important men in this novel: Duncan Idaho and Miles Teg. The Mentat specialization is also examined in more detail than I remember encountering in any novel. There is much talk of Mentats in this one. I was always fascinated by them so it was interesting to learn more about them. I sometimes wonder whether this whole novel is not a Mentat projection- and you can recognize it is true by the questions it delivers.
Moreover, love is another important topic in this one. What is love? What is duty? Where one ends and the other begins? The cold sisterhood distrusts love, but can it be avoided all together? They must realize that love is one of the things that makes us human. The sisterhood has a cold view of parenting, often taking away the children from their parents. However, look at the love of Teg's mother for him that survives in his ghola, the love of Dar's substitute parents at the sea planet- it's that kind of love that gives Dar her personal sense of sanity. Similarly, the sisterhood distrusts romantic love. However, they tolerate Murbella and Duncan Idaho's love- as long as it serves them. Can such romantic love ever last? There is love in this book, despite the odds. The sisterhood has a strange relationship with love, but there is love within it, even if the sisters deny it. T Perhaps the most important lessons that this novel has to teach us is hidden in this quote: “Revenge is for children and the emotionally retarded.” That's definitely a line that often makes me think as I can sometimes be quite revengeful in a passive sort of way. Revenge (passive or not) is definitely something to be avoided if you possess any maturity. To conclude, I took my time rereading this novel and found much to admire in it. Highly recommended!
P.S. The dedication that Herbert wrote to his late wife at the end of the novel is one of the most touching things I have ever read. It always brings a tear to my eye. -
I am a reader who sometimes enjoys books that make me work hard. This book (this series) is one of those. I loved it, but I fully understand that not everyone will.
In addition to being one of the greatest science fiction sagas ever, the Dune Chronicles were a massive sociological "thought experiment" on Herberts part, and I for one am thankful he had the time to share his thoughts with us. These books (especially the later ones) are the kind you have to put down from time to time to just think about... and then re-read the last few pages. You will have to refer to the appendix for definitions and clarifications. If you manage to finish all six books, you will find that parts of them come back to you unbidden years later, and you will pleasantly sit and wonder at the meaning of some passage and the vastness of Herberts imagination. It's hard work, but as with most strenuous climbs up high mountains, the view from the top makes it all worth it. -
i am finally free
-
This is probably the best book so far in my opinion. Excellent storyline and well written, and gripping to the end
-
Book: 3 stars
Audio CD: 3 stars
In Dune, Frank Herbert achieved a near perfect balance of story, character and exposition. In fact, the story and characters expressed the themes of the book, and Herbert avoided long, philosophical discursions. Dune is a self-contained novel needing no prequels or sequels. However, Herbert had more to say and produced five further novels set in the Atreides Imperium that were interesting to the compulsively completist amongst us (and I number myself one in this case) but came no where near the power and passion of the original. IMO, the series hit its nadir with God Emperor. The two subsequent novels - Heretics of Dune and the one under discussion - recaptured a bit of that original power though they, too, suffered from far too much plodding, philosophical distractions.
For the most part, I like what Herbert has to say about politics, emotions, the role of history and other themes but they destroy the books' pacing, threatening to turn them into Platonic dialogs rather than novels.
The plot: It's several thousand years after the Tyrant's death. The Old Empire fell, and humanity was Scattered, breaking the iron bonds of Leto's prescience and presumably ensuring Man's survival. Now, elements of the Scattering are returning. In particular, a group known as Honored Matres - women who exhibit inhumanly fast & deadly combat skills and enslave males through sexual domination. Herbert never reveals their exact origins but they display Fish Speaker and Bene Gesserit origins, with perhaps a dash of Tleilaxu. Whatever the case, they rampage through the Old Empire, destroying any opposition with insane orgies of violence that leave entire planets (including Dune) "sterilized." And the Bene Gesserit are the particular targets of their wrath.
The best aspect of these latter works is that we deal with an almost entirely new cast of characters, with the exception of the ubiquitous Duncan ghola. Duncan Idaho was never a favorite character from earlier novels but I've grown resigned to his presence in every book. Far more interesting were the new characters, in particular two. There's Miles Teg, a military genius and the BG's military leader. He represents a further advance in the Atreides' gene line, having the ability to "see" no-ships and is able to function at superhuman speeds for brief periods of time (faster even than Honored Matres). Then there's Darwi Odrade (another Atreides descendant), who eventually becomes Mother Superior and the architect of the plan that saves the BG from destruction at the hands of the Honored Matres.
I enjoyed the novel well enough in both is print and audio forms but I would recommend it only to those I mentioned above who need to know how things turn out.
I'll take this opportunity to close with a few comments on the abominations that Herbert's son, Brian, and his collaborator, Kevin Anderson, have produced. I tried reading Dune: House Atreides but the writing was so atrocious, I gave up in disgust. From what I gather, I am not alone in my reaction. For my money, the best post-Dune, non-Frank Herbert resource, if uncanonical, is Willis McNelly's The Dune Encyclopedia. It's only failing is that it was published before Heretics or Chapterhouse so there are only a few, tantalizing entries discussing the post-Leto universe, and we're forced to rely on the amateurish scribblings of Herbert fils and Anderson to complete the saga. -
This 6th and final book in the Dune saga that Frank Herbert wrote before his death in 1986 stands as one of the best in the entire series. Many have complained that it doesn't "go anywhere" for the first 150 pages or so, but I think it does. There are all of these seemingly unrelated plot threads that slowly but surely converge such that by the time you're halfway through the book, it all makes sense. The last half of this book is a mixture of intrigue and action that left me breathless and unable to put the book down until I was finished. The story here continues from the end of Heretics of Dune, with the Bene Gesserit hidden on their base planet of Chapterhouse, hiding and regrouping from the rampaging Honored Matres who hunt and slaughter them across the galaxy. However, the Bene Gesserit soon deduce that the Honored Matres themselves are being hunted, driven back into the Known Galaxy from the outer depths of The Scattering...and who these mysterious hunters are is not known. A desperate plan is conceived and ultimately carried out, but nothing goes as it was 100% planned and the resulting outcome leaves the two orders in shambles, merged together by force, with factions resisting, including some of the major players, who make their escape into the unknown. Throughout all of this are glimpses of two mysterious and all-powerful watchers who try to gather the most powerful of the renegades in their net...what ends up happening? Read it to find out!
Chapterhouse: Dune is famous for it's ending, which has been alternately called "cliffhanger" and "open." There has been raging debate over the intervening 25 years whether or not Frank Herbert intended to complete the saga with a 7th book, or leave it open-ended and finished with Chapterhouse:Dune. This is bolstered by two arguments...the short tribute to his wife that follows the final chapter (she died a year before this was published) and the fact that the mysterious watchers take the form of an elderly couple patterned after Frank and his wife Beverly. Further muddying the waters are the two horrendous "sequels" Herbert's son and his hack-writing partner Kevin Anderson published, supposedly based on an outline for "Dune 7," the supposed sequel and wrap-up to the saga, written by Frank Herbert and found in a safe-deposit box after he died in 1986. I won't get into any spoilers here, but suffice to say that the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of the "sequels" tie in characters created and introduced in Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson's "prequels," written YEARS after Frank died, and it's clear that, even though the outline may very well exist, they did not follow it one bit. This becomes clearer after reading the "sequels," (and don't worry, I'll savage those books and reveal the lies from those two after I read them again and review them on here).
Thus, we are left with an open/cliffhanger ending that is at the same time satisfying and frustrating. This is a testament to Herbert's imagination and talent, however...the final chapter of Chapterhouse:Dune is chilling and amusing and leads your imagination into a million "what-ifs" about what happened next. If only Frank could have lived longer and finished the saga (if he ever indeed intended to), but we still have his 6 Dune books and all of the imagination-spurring it provides, and isn't that really what we want out of the best fiction in literature? -
Iskreno, za mene su Hronike Dine jedan od najboljih serijala ikada! Retko u cemu sam ovako uziva i retko sta je od mene zahtevalo toliko ucestvovanja za vreme samog citanja. Genijalni gospodine Hrberte hvala vam na tome! Sa druge strane moram ali moram reci da su poslednje dve knjige na mene, sa strane samog pisanja i odluke kako rasporediti i sta objasniti i na koji nacin od radnje, ostavile malo slabiji utisak nego predhodna cetiri dela. I pored toga okosnica je tu, sve tece ka svom kompleksnom, i opet ta rec - genijalnom - kraju. Malo vise magle i nepoznanica, malo vise pitanja zasto, kako, gde, sta bi ali to je nekako i car ove knjige. I bas na samom kraju kada ste odahnuli i kada vam se celokipni razvoj situacije slegao u glavi opet ce se pojaviti Daniel and Marty i baciti vas u ocajno razmisljanje sta se to dodjavola moglo dalje izdesavati. Ako ste stigli do ovog dela serijala i ovog mog revjua ti znaci da vam je ceo jedan univerzum u glavi, pa vi izvolite izmastavajte dalje i ostanite u svetu Dine, Arakisa, Rakisa, Kapitola koliko vam je volja.
-
Uffff çok fena yerde bitti😔inşallah ithaki 7.kitabi çevirir, okumayı deli gibi istiyorum... açık uçlu bitti 😔
Benim gibi sabırsız ve orjinal dilden okuyamayacaklar için:
https://www.bilimkurgukulubu.com/edeb...
https://www.bilimkurgukulubu.com/edeb... -
“Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.”
“All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.”
“Confine yourself to observing and you always miss the point of your life. The object can be stated this way: Live the best life you can. Life is a game whose rules you learn if you leap into it and play it to the hilt. Otherwise, you are caught off balance, continually surprised by the shifting play. Non-players often whine and complain that luck always passes them by. They refuse to see that they can create some of their own luck.
How do I review this final novel in the Dune Saga? This is a very conflicting novel because of the wide spectrum of emotions I felt reading the final chapter. I was in the last 10-20 pages of this novel thinking damn, they no more Dune after these pages, this is it. You’re probably wondering what I felt upon the ending, well I am certain the consensus online was this is a very cliff-hanger ending. I am not very adamant upon that stance because the ending itself to me is very clear in what it seeks out. It's honestly such a beautiful end upon this 6-book saga, even if this was an unintentional ending to the Dune Saga. But to me, it's a fitting one. Reading the final chapter then reading the eulogy of Frank Herbert Wife straight afterwards was just beautiful and honestly hits you with the strings. They are a lot of controversy in the final two novels in the Dune Saga. It's honestly not for baseless reasons, it's understandable because of Herbert focus. He writes these antagonists who are somewhat the antithesis to Bene Gesserit, the ideas of the Honored Matres are honestly fantastic on paper. The execution is a lot to be desired. It’s very confusing why the antagonists come across so Caricatures because Dune has some of the best antagonists in fiction. You can easily list them from your hands some of them are so iconic. They have a character called Spider Queen, she is not scary at all, intimidating but she does feature in some of the best back forth minds games in the series.
The biggest strength of Dune 5-6 is weirdly epigrams. These were just mint, the amount of lore, knowledge, characterisation thinking upon this Saga as a whole. I mean this is worldbuilding at its finest. It's such a minor thing in the novel but the amount of depth it provides, unveiling Bene Gesserit sisterhood and so much more I mean that is beautiful. Speaking of the sisterhood, God I love exploring Bene Gesserit from the big activities to small activities in chapterhouse. The area is just somewhat disturbing it feels artificial, it doesn’t feel right, and Herbert conveys it so well, like a perfect area but sometimes too polished, it’s not authentic enough. I won’t talk about that aspect but the I have to admit I really like Orade. If you do not like Orade then this novel won’t click. She is the main character for most of the novel. Her nuances are so fascinating to explore and her vulnerabilities. Bene Gesserit at the height of their power, seeing the cracks of her armour, her flaws are something I enjoy reading. I will honestly defend Herbert characterisation a lot of times uses indirect characterisation I think with Orade it does show with her relationship with . It's such an interesting concept and I wished Herbert showed it more, he always does this, like when an idea is literally tangling right in front of him, it wouldn’t take too much effort as the pieces of there but he won’t do it. So the positives so far are Bene Gesserit lore/worldbuilding, Orade, great mind games, , the ending and atmosphere.
I’ve already discussed my dislike of the Honored Matres, them feeling papercut antagonists. The other criticism I do agree with is that writing is Herbert weakest maybe in the Dune Saga. The dude was dying was writing this novel and medically he wasn’t very fit he passed away a year later after this was published. It sadly does show in the actual writing. I generally like Herbert prose a lot and here it’s still the same ( me enjoying it) but it's a step down in quality. A friend of mine binged read all 6 novels and for him, it felt like a different author. I read pretty spread apart I cannot that deny or agree with the claim but it's worth pointing out. It’s very unpolished in that aspect though I argue the epigrams, eulogy and other writings is some of Herbert best. Now the pacing isn’t great. This might be the most poorly paced Dune Book in the series. I do not know how to articulate the pacing but it’s a weakness of this novel. Even as a person who didn’t have as much of the issue with pacing, I can visibly see it being the worst. What makes this more evident to me is that novel lacks those BIG moments. What I mean is every Dune novel you can point out this is a HUGE moment, when thinking about the past books they a lot of big highlights even Heretics have those big moments. Chapterhouse doesn’t have that or should I state very few standout moments. When they appear it's great but it's not that much. Murbella is an okay character, I understood the intention but I ain’t sure If executed her that well . But I did enjoy a lot of her chapters weirdly, though I was rarely invested with her ( or as much as I hoped). Sheeana I like her, especially her last chapter by herself that was brilliant. The oddity of the novel is the weirdly handled sexual aspects. I am not against this in fiction, I feel like people are honestly too sensitive to the sexual aspects in fiction. But Herbert does not write it well to say it kindly.
In Conclusion, I really liked this novel a lot way more than I suspected and I would say this Dune Saga has been such an experience for me. Not even sure what to rate this, or if they a point rating it. All I can say is thank you, Frank Herbert, for these 6 novels, some of my favourite novels of all time and which has impacted me so deeply it’s kinda insane. This isn’t a normal series I can read have fun and go to the next. It’s something that just ponders upon my mind consistently. A lot of life lessons, cautionary tales and so forth. now it's time to say goodbye, I don’t regret this journey. Though one LAST thing, I will say I never met Herbert, but I feel like I would love to have a drink with the man hearing about his philosophy in life and perspectives on given situations. Though this is the end point of the journey, I will reread these 6 novels one day.
7/10??? Or 6.5/10 I got no clue, its such a flawed novel but they aspects I love a lot, all I can say, it was worth experiencing. -
As far as I am concerned, this is the last Dune book (besides the Encyclopedia) and should be considered the end. The disappointing tripe of Hunters and Sandworms of Dune by Brian and Kevin are nothing but poorly written fanfiction.
The consequences of Leto's Golden Path are made apparent in this and its predecessor, Heretics of Dune. Sheeana is a intriguing character and so is Murbella and Odrade, as well as the nth incarnation of Duncan Idaho.
Frank Herbert died before he could write Dune 7, so this book was not supposed to be the end of the Dune series. Unfortunately it is, for we have been denied Herbert's genius after his untimely death.
We can assume that with Leto's Golden Path, Siona's 'no-gene' and the Scattering that humans have spread across many galaxies and this would eventually give rise to myriad races and civilizations, which in itself is a more than intriguing thought.
Thank you for sharing this fantastic story with us, Frank Herbert, and may your legacy be always cherished (even if not from Brian and Kevin) We love you. -
Dune Rahibeler Meclisi (Dune Evreni)
“Hayat bir oyundur; kurallarını öğrenmek istiyorsan içine dalıp oyunu sonuna kadar oynamalısın. Yoksa sürekli değişen bu oyun karşısında şaşırıp bocalarsın. Oyuna katılmayanlar sızlanır ve daima şanssızlıklarından yakınır genellikle. Şanslı olmanın biraz da kendi ellerinde olduğunu görmeyi reddederler.” Sayfa 61
-Nihayet altıncı kitap olan Dune Rahibeler Meclisi ile Dune serisini bitirmiş oldum. İlk beş kitabı arka arkaya okumuştum ama beşinci kitaptan sonra seriye uzun bir ara vermiş olabilirim. Son kitapta Saygın Analar ile Bene Gesseritler arasındaki mücadeleye odaklanıyoruz. Öncelikle karakterlerin düşünceleri kitap boyunca ortaya atılıyor tabii daha sonrasında hamleleri… Özellikle son yüz sayfa daha akıcıydı diyebilirim.
-Dune serisini okumak genel anlamda oldukça keyifliydi. Ben seriye sadece bilim kurgu olarak bakmıyorum. Ekolojiden tutunda din, siyaset, politika, bilim, sosyal kültürler hemen hepsi iyi bir şekilde oluşturulmuştu. Hatta bazı karakterlerin ölümden sonra tekrar bir bedene dahil olması ve onu tekrardan görmemiz güzeldi. Bu arada şüphesiz ilk kitap açık ara en iyi kitaptı diyebilirim. Okuyucular da bunda hemfikirler zaten. Ben ondan sonra dördüncü kitap olan Dune Tanrı İmparatoru’nu beğendim. Altıncı kitap ise üç ve beşinci kitaptan daha derli ve topluydu. İkinci kitap da serinin en rahat okunan kitaplarından bir tanesiydi. Tabii bunda en ince kitap olma özelliği de vardır.
-Herhalde bazı sahneler unutulsa da Duncan Idaho, Leto, Kumsolucanları ilelebet hafızalarda kalacak. Çevirmen Dost Körpe’yi de anmadan geçmeyelim altı kitap boyunca çeviri bana gayet güzel geldi.
-Belki bu yıl Asimov’dan Vakıf serisine el atabilirim… -
i think i read the first book when i was 12, and for some reason got the idea in my head that i should read the whole lot in rapid succession. well, the rapid didn't happen so much, and i am grateful that i am five pages away from concluding my brief, but friendly affair with mr. herbert. you know when you begin to go on dates with someone that has been an intermittent and casual friend? you think, well, they seem perfectly nice, reasonably intelligent, compelling conversationalist, let's try. but then you get to know them a little. you find that you begin to panic a bit after spending more than a couple of hours with them as you start to understand that not only did you entirely underestimate their intelligence, but that you had no, not even a whiff of an idea of how fucking weird they were. not non-sequitor-weird, but probably-masturbated-to-thinking-about-breast-feeding-the-cat-weird. yes. when frank starts in on the t-probes and the sexual slavery and child-ghola riding around one of the sisters like a horse...i start to think about how many exits the restaurant has and try to remember if i ever mentioned where i live.
-
The most exciting part of this book was the cigarette burn toward the end of the paperback, from when my dad read it. I used to buy him the latest in the Dune series for his birthday - now I know I was punishing him.
To summarize Chapter House:
People talk with each other, then remember earlier conversations, go back to the current one, recall another earlier conversation - all the time talking about absolutely nothing of consequence.
There is no plot, other than people talking about whores vs witches, including witches talking about whores and whores talking about witches.
That is the sum of it, the end.
A terrible book, but at least I know get the wear the badge of (dis?)honour for having read the complete Dune series.
The first book is a masterpiece, the rest are weak echoes that offer ever decreasing returns. -
3.0 to 3.5 stars. After loving the first five books in the series, I was a little disappointed in this last installment of the Dune Chronicles by Frank Herbert. While I have always been a big fan of Herbert's heavy use of dialogue and philosophical argument to advance the themes of the story, I thought that its use in this volume was not as crisp and felt a bit too plodding. That said, I did like it and it is certainly not a bad book, but it does suffer in comparison to the previous installments.
Now I have to decide if I am going to sample any of the subsequent novels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson. -
I busted ass to finish this book in 2022 as probably my biggest goal was to complete all of the Dune that Frank Herbert himself wrote before the end of the year. I DID IT! Sadly, this was my least favorite of the whole gig, I think this is the “middle book syndrome” book as there was supposed to be another book in this era of the Dune saga. There was the “original” trilogy then God Emperor of Dune was kind of a bridge book then another trilogy. So anyway, we never got the end of that and I really believe that based off where Herbert ended things here the last one would have been great. I have absolutely zero desire or intention to read anything that Brian Herbert wrote so I will never know, I don’t even think Brian really knew lol, that’s what I hear anyway.
I did not know that Dune would become such an integral piece of literature in my life but it definitely did. I am sentimental completing it. Never in my wildest dreams did I think any piece of classic literature would become an all time favorite let alone a SciFi as I wasn’t a SciFi girl before all this. Hell, my puppy is named Chani, that’s how much this series means to me. I know that I will revisit it many times in the years to come but there will never be that special magic if reading for the first time. Here’s a fond farewell to my maiden journey through the Dune saga and cheers to my future self revisiting this extremely special universe in the future.
Oh, and HAPPY NEW YEAR! 🎊🎆 -
Plot? Nonexistent. Will I still give the other ones a try? Oh yes.
-
As 2021 comes to a close, so does my first read through of the entire Dune series (those that count, at least!) and I am left with a feeling of great sadness - Frank Herbert should have lived to complete his masterpiece, or at least have left it in hands of someone with more respect for the source material. Herbert's universe only grew richer as it grew away from the Atreides, and in my opinion, more interesting. Paul, Leto II, Alia, etc were all interesting characters, but they are much more interesting when they are not actively shaping the stories of the universe, instead being looked upon as lessons, or warnings. The Tlelaxu, the Bene Gesseret, the Honored Matres, all are so much more interesting to me. I wish that we had seen the finale that Herbert had in mind, but I would consider this, even so, to be a satisfying conclusion.
Interestingly enough, I had always been told that the only Dune books worth reading were the first 3, that after that it got "too weird" but I had the opposite experience. The first three are important building blocks to what comes later, but are certainly not the most interesting part of the Dune universe.
I look forward to my reread of the series in the years to come! -
This book was honestly just not very good. To be honest, I haven’t enjoyed a Dune book since Children of Dune, and even then it didn’t reach the highs of the first book. I’m really glad that this series is over (unless you count the ones that Frank Herbert didn’t write, which I won’t because I’d rather not continue from here) because Dune has really lost me during this trilogy. Like honestly, I can’t think of one thing I actually enjoyed in this one, which is a shame. Dune is one of the best books I’ve ever read, but it’s almost not worth getting so sucked into it knowing that this is where the world expands to. I’m sure I’ll be revisiting that entry sometime in the future, but I highly doubt my rereads will get as far as this one.
-
Disappointing, very much wasted potential
-
This is a little disappointing. Honestly, I’d recommend stopping at God Emperor, the threads are tied up nicely and I’ve no problem saying the first four books form a single masterpiece. And then you get the last two and they’re kind of weird and janky and unfocused. Herbert is clearly an incredibly intelligent writer, and you never get the sense that this is really substandard writing. In fact, there are some fine moments of political theory and the usual bon mots, but they’re infrequent at this point; it seems dragged out, very little really happens.
Heretics of Dune I think is a stronger book for sure. If you’re really curious about the Bene Gesserit, they become the focus of the last two books. The books focus on political systems, how corruption and the road to fascism being inevitable. And it focuses on Duncan and Sheeana, potential messianic figures who struggle between the self and their society. As the new governments take over, the systems grow more and more corrupted and empty as they become figureheads of ego. And to a degree this, the final Frank Herbert Dune book, is satisfying in that it seems to conclude the journey of these characters (among others) in a way which feels thematically appropriate. But I just thought it was boring. Not a lot happens, so your really just listening to conversations that are not as interesting as they were in previous books. I don’t know what happened or why the quality would dip like this at the end. I could also completely see why this could be a 4 star book for some as it’s definitely still Herbert, but I expected some big resolution that capped the series to this point and this is more like a meandering to-be-continued space opera.
I’m glad that I stuck it out, but it’s a little odd given the quality of the earlier books that the author didn’t really get to stick the landing. And look, the last two books are sexist. It’s clear that it’s the far-future and this is a fantasy, but the extent of the Honored Matres is ridiculous. I get that this is coming out of the seventies, it’s talking about women’s society and the sexual revolution and I can take it with a grain of salt. It’s intellectually interesting but overdone. The actual way the Bene Gesserit and Matres led government functions wasn’t as clear to me either as it was with Leto. It just didn’t seem as thought out beyond, what would a corrupt, godlike government of women look like? File under: curious but inessential. -
[Nota Bene: As Frank Herbert's last two published novels in the Dune series, Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune, along with the unwritten Dune 7, in fact comprise a single story that happened to be divided into three parts, I'll post the same review for both of the two published volumes. This review contains no spoilers.]
During the first half of his literary career, Frank Herbert focused most on coming to terms with what it meant to be conscious. The evolution of his thinking on the subject can be traced from real-world events which happened to him in his youth, through his earliest published science fiction stories, crude as they were, and on into novels like The Dragon in the Sea and the stories that would coalesce into The Godmakers, and certainly The Santaroga Barrier and Destination: Void. This line of thinking reached its fruition in the novels Dune and Dune Messiah.
Having expanded his understanding of the full spectrum of consciousness about as far as it could go (although admittedly he never stopped tinkering with the subject), in the second half of his career Herbert refocused his attention on how the limitations imposed upon individual consciousness – or perhaps it might be better to say the limited perspective encompassing a single human lifetime – leaves humanity ill-equipped to confront an infinite and ever-changing universe. In effect we end up in a continuous crisis mode, always vainly insisting that the world of tomorrow conform to the expectations of yesterday. We're persistently and comically always shocked to discover our assumptions are wrong. Elsewhere I have described this aspect of Herbert's thinking, the human failure to deal with, or even to recognize, the implications of an unbounded universe, as an absolute-infinity breach. This theme begins to emerge in Children of Dune and is especially prominent in God Emperor of Dune, for a final surmounting of the absolute-infinity breach is the primary target of Leto II's Golden Path. But we also encounter the concern in Herbert's final trilogy: Heretics of Dune, Chapterhouse: Dune, and (by implication) in the unwritten Dune 7.
It is a hallmark of Herbert's imagination that he pursues an ever-elaborating expanse of concerns, always tracing a spectral pathway across a continuum of broadening bandwidth, chasing after considerations of widening implications across grander and grander scales of magnitude. An original interest in a fleeting moment of hyperconsciousness ultimately led Herbert into defining consciousness, hyperconsciousness and subconsciousness in all their aspects and dramatizing what he had learned and concluded in his stories; likewise his contemplations of the diverse implications of the absolute-infinity breach. And it might be added that he pushed his spectral analytical approach through time as well, so the Dune saga becomes probably the most temporally discontinuous series ever written. The first three novels take place roughly around the year 21,200 AD. The drama of God Emperor of Dune unfolds 3,500 years later, and that of the last three books (Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune are difficult novels, and attempting to distinguish them as separate novels, or independent from the unwritten Dune 7, is an artificial and arbitrary exercise) takes place an additional 1,500 years after that, placing us circa 26,200 AD.
As the primary goal of Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune was to shatter the innate mythmaking in humanity that compels us to conservative convergence, these last three books are intended to unveil the consequences of living in a multiverse that has become irreparably divergent. This divergence followed in the wake of the downfall of the God Emperor and the subsequent Scattering of humanity not throughout multiple star systems or galaxies, but across multiple universes which are discontinuous with one another. Any threat can now come upon our heroes and heroines from any direction, but with all the eggs no longer in one basket, no matter what catastrophe might befall locally, the whole story can never come to a final end.
In Heretics of Dune (1984) and Chapterhouse: Dune (1985), the Bene Gesserit has recovered substantially from the tribulation of the era of the God Emperor, and now we're allowed a far more intensive view of the inner workings of the Sisterhood than ever before. But the Bene Gesserit and the remnants of the old Imperium, as ever, are confronted by a host of power-hungry enemies, new and old, in the usual style of Herbert's Machiavellian plotting. It is these plots-within-plots that seemingly all other reviewers have focused on, and I'll forego doing the same here.
Herbert said it wasn't until he was writing Children of Dune that he came to understand that an important role of an author was to entertain his readership. That will come as surprising news to some of you who like Herbert, and not to some of you who don't. But it's important to note that the word "entertainment" carries different connotations for readers than it does for hacks or more seriously-aspiring authors. Entertainment is something that is doled out to the action-adventure-thriller crowd, to those who love reading or going to the movies in no small part for the sheer escapism of the thing. Now I'm not overly bigoted about this. There's nothing more boring than a book that's, well, boring. But I think what Herbert was getting at was that as he matured as a writer he came to see, as many writers do, that plot per se is less interesting than character, no matter how many car chases or lasgun exchanges are involved.
I for one can't separate a reading of the last books of the Dune series from knowledge of what was going on in Herbert's life as he wrote them, which he did, by that way, at an absolutely furious pace. This happened to be during the most stressful part of his entire life. His wife, Beverly, had been dying for ten years, and the last two years of her life were especially painful for her and for her husband, both physically and emotionally. I believe that, had he lived, Frank Herbert would have easily written the Dune 7 novel to complete the series. I am less sanguine that he could ever have written another coherent novel after that one.
By the time God Emperor of Dune was published in 1981, and with the signed contracts for the later Dune novels in hand, Herbert was financially secure but, as I've suggested, he was suffering from increasing emotional instability. Furthermore, I can't help believing he was struck by a supreme irony, which is that, like Paul Maud'Dib, he now found himself hemmed in by the conservative mythology of his own image which he himself had created. To this day you can still see this in reviews of his later books, wherein readers who were born after Herbert's death still bemoan the fact that his later books are not like Dune in style. Everyone wanted, and continues to want, Frank Herbert to write books that seem like quote-unquote Frank Herbert books: everyone wanted, and wants, Herbert to remain frozen unchanging in 1965. But in his later years Herbert, with his financial security, felt free to try to break out of that myth regardless of the demands and expectations of his fans, and for this I applaud him. I'm sure he did have basic plot elements in mind for the last three books of the series – call this the "entertainment" necessary to bring the masses along – but it's quite obvious that he had already grown more interested in character development than in weaving such masterful webs of palace intrigue anymore.
Herbert wanted to change course, but he had not yet found a new direction. I see hints of this in Children of Dune, in which Duncan Idaho tells Alia about the practice of setting out blocks of marble in the desert to be etched by the blowing sand of a Coriolis storm. Idaho argues that the sculpted pieces produced are beautiful but they are not art, as they are not carved according to human volition. But in the latter books it is Sheeana who creates an abstract sculpture she calls "The Void," which is art. How might these two kinds of sculpture compare? What is the symbolic significance of Sheeana's abstract work? The question is particularly relevant, it seems to me, when Sheeana's piece is recognized as a symbol set in tension with a Van Gogh which, at the end of Chapterhouse: Dune is carted off into a new, uncharted universe. Clearly, I think, the matter can be read as a form of self-psychoanalysis undertaken by the author. "The Void" is the primitive and unformed new expression welling up inside him; the old and familiar, even conventional Van Gogh has been let slip away with a fond farewell.
A kind of quantum uncertainty pervades Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune which are, after all, a single story occupying multiple volumes. We do not have enough pieces to interpret this story or to fairly critique its parts, which must therefore remain finally unadjudicated and unjudgeable. This is because the unwritten Dune 7 was also to have comprised a full third of the complete tale. We can see that Herbert was bending writing to a new direction, and we can hazard some educated guesses about (entertaining) plot elements that would have informed the third book, but we can never know. The best we can do is ponder any written records or notes that Herbert may have left behind as poles in the sand to mark the path he intended to follow. Anyone who possesses any such notes, it seems to me, can be a good steward to the memory of Frank Herbert only by publishing them in unexpurgated form: lacking that, Herbert's career accomplishments can never be properly assessed. And that is an injustice to an important 20th century American writer.
