Killing the SS: The Hunt for the Worst War Criminals in History by Bill OReilly


Killing the SS: The Hunt for the Worst War Criminals in History
Title : Killing the SS: The Hunt for the Worst War Criminals in History
Author :
Rating :
ISBN : 1250165547
ISBN-10 : 9781250165541
Language : English
Format Type : Hardcover
Number of Pages : 307
Publication : First published October 9, 2018
Awards : Goodreads Choice Award History & Biography (2018)

Confronting Nazi evil is the subject of the latest installment in the mega-bestselling Killing series

As the true horrors of the Third Reich began to be exposed immediately after World War II, the Nazi war criminals who committed genocide went on the run. A few were swiftly caught, including the notorious SS leader, Heinrich Himmler. Others, however, evaded capture through a sophisticated Nazi organization designed to hide them. Among those war criminals were Josef Mengele, the "Angel of Death" who performed hideous medical experiments at Auschwitz; Martin Bormann, Hitler's brutal personal secretary; Klaus Barbie, the cruel "Butcher of Lyon"; and perhaps the most awful Nazi of all: Adolf Eichmann.

Killing the SS is the epic saga of the espionage and daring waged by self-styled "Nazi hunters." This determined and disparate group included a French husband and wife team, an American lawyer who served in the army on D-Day, a German prosecutor who had signed an oath to the Nazi Party, Israeli Mossad agents, and a death camp survivor. Over decades, these men and women scoured the world, tracking down the SS fugitives and bringing them to justice, which often meant death.

Written in the fast-paced style of the Killing series, Killing the SS will educate and stun the reader.

The final chapter is truly shocking.


Killing the SS: The Hunt for the Worst War Criminals in History Reviews


  • Jonathan David

    Bill O’Reilly and his lesser known co-author manages to write history in a very easy to read way that is great for those who aren’t professional historians. This latest book covers the post World War II era of Nazi hunting, and while the book reveals no new revelations it is still quite good and well researched. Unfortunately, the book lacks the countdown page turning quality of his books like Killing Kennedy or Killing Lincoln. Still, all in all, I’d highly recommended this book to those interested in World War II history.

  • Jeanette

    So many decades- so much time since WWII and still the repercussions of "search" continue. They do.
    If only now to skeleton and DNA materials for evidence.

    This is history. And the realistic outcomes and events that have happened continually since the ends of 1944/1945 with the collapse of the main NAZI party structure/ army in Berlin itself. The telling is often in flashback fashion too to encompass witness "eyes" for/to acts and processes either being persecuted by these sadists or for their hunting to find them (perpetrators) again.

    Because I lived some of this in real time in my everyday news, like the kidnap, trial of Eichmann (watched this entirety with my Dad telling me his own Trieste camp experiences on TV when it was a dinky little black and white screened box)- much of this was just more detailing to me. I knew the outcomes. But still it is so, so much more than just the more infamous names of SS or Himmler or Barbie or Eichmann. Dozens and dozens that held these levels of common knowledge atrocity habits. It's all the names we, alive at the times of most of these searches (1945-1980 for most of them)- did NOT recognize as being monsters from the surname nomenclatures. So, so many that were know by their "beast" names and not their civilian names. Or who threaded themselves within other names and professions almost immediately and hiked west away from the Russians' brutality in Germany proper itself- the final conquest.

    Barbie too, I remember all of that aftermath. And how long he got to be just "a guy". Mengele too. Even having another son after the war and an entire new life!!

    For those of you born much later and especially since 1990- you should read this book. Know how the ratlines worked and how many lived to be 80 and 90 years old in South America, especially Argentina and Brazil. Most of them in a highly German cultural context society too. And how some of the very worst of these were CIA attached and had help for the "insights" and knowledge that they could convey to "our" side against the Russians. Tit for tat. Even with the devil.

    And you will learn about the people who spent great portions of their lives being the "seekers" and what that encompassed. Nearly everything to trace and go undercover. To befriend a possible "son" in order to find any possible real time address. Much more.

    The women guards called "Raven's" - those were the ones I had heard the least amount as to "aftermath".

    Nearly half of these men got out of Europe through Genoa, Italy under various help from the organizations (ODESSA and others) that enabled new names, passports and all kinds of false identity particulars.

    How ironic is it that some of the worst, like Bormann, lived to be old men. And never tasted a bit of the justice or recompense that they deserved. IF SUCH a entity would even be possible.

    The present tense O'Reilly telling of habit makes it dry. And the atrocity description is considerable. Terrible, terrible. Never to be forgotten.

    Much of the tale of Israel- from English days to far, far after 1948 birth- it is included.

    Tons of references and there is an excellent "aftermath" section for this century by name of searcher and/or descendant or perp "location/grave" at the ending of the book.

    One of the last thoughts for me. Nuremberg didn't begin to do any equivalency for "trials". And the numbers and sentences were both a drop in the bucket to what they could have been. Citing the state of Europe and the masses of DP's (Displaced Persons)- it was still far, far from being a sufficient balance.

  • Greg Kopstein

    I’m far from an O’Reilly fanatic, but I have read all of his Killing series installments. I’ve liked them all so this one was a no-brainer for me. I got through it in 3 days - it was that engaging. It takes a lot to earn 5 stars from me, and I’m not so sure this was a slam-dunk 5, but it achieved all its goals, was well researched and engaging, so 5 stars it is.

    This book guides us on a hunt across time, continents, and even oceans in our quest for the fanatical Nazi killers - The SS. I’m no expert, but I am informed on the topic, but this book taught me a lot. It was captivating and informative, a rare combination.

    I suggest following this book with the films below:
    Operation Finale (2018)
    Operation Anthropoid
    Valkyrie (2008)
    Defiance (2008)
    Conspiracy

    And a dozen other films that parallel this topic.

    Engaging, informative, and another great installment in this series.

  • Lissa

    I just can't get behind a book that purports itself to be a history book without citing its sources SOMEWHERE. There's a brief note about "sources" in the back of the book, but it basically consists of "we interviewed some people and read some articles and went to some places" without specifics at all. So I looked at this book the entire time with a highly skeptical eye, especially since the authors seem to have sympathy for certain people in this book and undisguised antagonism towards others. This did not feel like an unbiased book at all.

    I've read a lot of the easily verifiable information elsewhere before (and written by far superior authors, such as Gitta Sereny), so there's nothing particularly new here if you are at all familiar with the topic of the post-WW2 ratlines.

    The writing style itself was very simplistic. The book is fairly disorganized as well, with the authors jumping back and forth between topics and people without warning. I also hated that it was mostly written in present tense, because that is just nails on a chalkboard when it comes to supposed "serious" books.

    Much of the book was dedicated to the captures of Mengele and Eichmann, and I felt like this was less "Killing the SS" and more "Killing Eichmann and oh shit we don't have enough material for that even though several other authors have written books about Eichmann alone, so let's pad this book with other people now."

    I'd recommend skipping this one and reading books that actually bother to state their sources.

  • George K.

    Είχα καιρό να διαβάσω οτιδήποτε που να έχει σχέση με τον Β' Παγκόσμιο Πόλεμο, πόσο μάλλον κάποιο σχετικό non-fiction βιβλίο (τώρα που το σκέφτομαι, έχω να δω καιρό και κάποια σχετική ταινία). Έτσι, αποφάσισα να πιάσω στα χέρια μου το συγκεκριμένο βιβλίο, που κυκλοφόρησε πρόσφατα στα ελληνικά από τις εκδόσεις Διόπτρα, και το αποτέλεσμα ήταν να μου ανοίξει για τα καλά η όρεξη για τα γεγονότα που σημάδεψαν τον κόσμο εκείνη την εποχή, όσο και αν τέτοια πράγματα δεν γίνεται να τα διαβάζεις με ευχαρίστηση.

    Εδώ έχουμε να κάνουμε με ένα πραγματικά πολύ γλαφυρό και συναρπαστικό βιβλίο, το οποίο είναι γραμμένο σαν κατασκοπευτικό θρίλερ και θα έλεγα εξίσου εθιστικό και δυναμικό με τα μυθιστορήματα μεγάλων συγγραφέων του αγαπημένου αυτού λογοτεχνικού είδους. Μόνο που εδώ έχουμε να κάνουμε με αληθινά γεγονότα, με πραγματικές ιστορίες που τόσα χρόνια μετά κάνουν ακόμα τους ανθρώπους να ανατριχιάζουν, να θυμώνουν και να δακρύζουν. Το βιβλίο έχει να κάνει με κάποιους γνωστούς Ναζί που, μετά την ήττα της Ναζιστικής Γερμανίας, κατάφεραν με τον έναν ή τον άλλο τρόπο να διαφύγουν στο εξωτερικό, και τους διώκτες τους, που κίνησαν Γη και ουρανό για να εντοπίσουν τους στυγνούς αυτούς εγκληματίες, και έτσι να αποδοθεί δικαιοσύνη για τα αίσχη που διέπραξαν.

    Στο βιβλίο πρωταγωνιστούν διαβόητοι Ναζί, μεταξύ άλλων ο Άντολφ Άιχμαν, ο Γιόζεφ Μένγκελε, ο Μάρτιν Μπόρμαν και ο Κλάους Μπάρμπι (ο "Χασάπης της Λυών", που βρήκε δουλειά στη CIA...), κτήνη που είναι υπεύθυνα για την εξολόθρευση εκατοντάδων χιλιάδων ανθρώπων. Βέβαια, υπάρχουν και οι αφανείς Ναζί, κατώτεροι αξιωματικοί που πρόλαβαν να ξεφύγουν και πολλοί από αυτούς κατάφεραν να ζήσουν μέχρι τα βαθιά γεράματα, χωρίς να τους πλησιάσει κάποιος εκδικητής. Οι διώκτες τους, πράκτορες της Μοσάντ ή απλοί Εβραίοι που έχασαν δικούς τους ανθρώπους στα στρατόπεδα συγκέντρωσης, γύρισαν όλο τον κόσμο για να αποδοθεί δικαιοσύνη ή να πάρουν εκδίκηση για τον χαμό τόσων ψυχών, με τούτο το χρονικό να αποδίδει με γλαφυρότητα τον (πολλές φορές μάταιο) αγώνα τους.

    Βάζω δίχως δεύτερη σκέψη πέντε αστεράκια στο βιβλίο, όχι τόσο γιατί είναι το απόλυτο βιβλίο σχετικά με το θέμα (υποθέτω ότι δεν χωράνε σε τριακόσιες σελίδες τόσα ιστορικά γεγονότα), όσο γιατί είναι απίστευτα εθιστικό και καλογραμμένο, ενώ φέρνει στην επιφάνεια άγνωστα περιστατικά σχετικά με τους φυγάδες των SS, και βάζει τους αναγνώστες στο τρυπάκι της έρευνας γύρω από τα SS, τους διώκτες των Ναζί, τα στρατόπεδα συγκέντρωσης και, εν γένει, τον Β' Παγκόσμιο Πόλεμο. Έμαθα πολλά ενδιαφέροντα πραγματάκια, είδα κάμποσες φάτσες, άρχισα να ψάχνω για βιβλία, ταινίες και ντοκιμαντέρ σχετικά με το συγκεκριμένο κομμάτι της παγκόσμιας ιστορίας, έστω και αν κάτι τέτοιο δεν ενδείκνυται για να περάσει ευχάριστα η ώρα.

  • Mike (the Paladin)

    This follows the end of the war and the post war search for the SS including the more well known fugitives such as Eichmann and Mengele. It's an interesting read and follows the style of the Killing etc. books (if you have read any of them. Real historical events given in a thought provoking and open style. I can recommend it.

  • Kevin

    Nazis...the easiest people for me to despise! This is the history of key figures that were captured by Nazi hunters after World War ll. A very interesting history.

  • Vasilis Manias

    Ακόμα ένα βιβλίο στα πολλά που διάβασα φέτος για το δρόμο της φυγής των Ναζί και αυτόν του ανελέητου (τις περισσότερες φορές) κυνηγητού από τους διώκτες τους που μετά το τέλος του πολέμου αποφάσισαν πως η μόνη δίκαιη ποινή ήταν απλά ο θάνατος των ανώμαλων βασανιστών.
    Το ξεκίνησα διστακτικά, ο συγγραφέας μου είναι ιδιαίτερα αντιπαθής, αλλά η γραφή του με κέρδισε από τα πρώτα κιόλας κεφάλαια, ξανά Μένγκελε, ξανά δίκη της Νυρβέργης, ξανά κρέμασμα Αιχμαν, μέχρι να μου εντυπωθούν και να τα μάθω καλάκαλα, ενω εντυπωσιακό μπόνους στο βιβλίο αποτέλεσε και το τελευταίο κεφάλαιο, που ήταν αφιερωμένο στις γυναίκες των ΕσΕς, ένα κομμάτι που δεν είχε το χώρο του στο μυαλό μου ποτέ και το οποίο ανακάτεψε για μία ακόμη φορά τα μέσα μου.
    Κανείς δεν πρέπει να ξεχάσει.
    Κάθε φορά που θα αισθάνεται πως λησμόνησε, πως το κακό πέρασε, να ξαναδιαβάζει.
    Και να τα θυμάται πάλι από την αρχή όπως στον πραγματικότητα με φρικαλεότητα και απανθρωπιά συνέβησαν.
    Και έτσι να συνεχίζεται η ζωή.
    Με μνήμη.

  • Juli

    I'm not a fan of Bill O'Reilly. I never liked his political commentary shows. He just isn't someone I enjoy. But to be fair -- I don't like any of the main stream political commentators from left or right, or even the middle. I prefer to form my own opinions based on neutral factual information.....not journalists ranting about their personal opinion. This isn't a personal judgment on Bill O'Reilly....I'm just not someone who watches rants from either side (I equally dislike Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity....whatever person is ranting on CNN, FOX, etc (I don't know all their names because I don't watch)....I avoid this sort of program in general.

    I was trolling about on my local library's digital site when this series came up in my "suggested reading'' Hmmm.....a series about famous deaths and assassinations. Intriguing. I listen to a lot of non-fiction audio books about history, so I clicked and started reading book blurbs on this series. Imagine my surprise when the author's name caught my attention. Bill O'Reilly. Really?? Instead of turning me off, it just made me want to read the series even more. I wanted to know what other info Bill has to share besides politics.....

    I'm glad I took the time to listen to this book. Although it really offers nothing new about the pursuit, capture and convictions of Nazi SS members following World War II (and the many that escaped any sort of trial or conviction), I found the narrative interesting. There is some updated information on some of the Nazi hunters that I didn't know about....the Mossad was more involved in the process than was first known as they kept their actions secret for decades. I would NEVER want to be on the wrong side of the Mossad. It makes me realize that those who lived in hiding and technically escaped justice lived in fear and paranoia for the rest of their lives. That is somehow a worse punishment than being caught. (I chuckled darkly a few times and had that momentary thought.....the one that goes....you killed my family members and had a public trial & execution or hid like a dog for decades in some out of the way country....debt paid, murderers.)

    My one problem with this audio book is Bill O'Reilly's narration. There are frequent mistakes, strange pauses, and times where it's obvious that he had lost his place in the script and stumbled over a sentence, mispronunciation of German names and places, etc. He also has a strange cadence to his reading. Strange pauses....weird inflection.....out of place emphasis on some words or portions of sentences. It made it difficult to listen at first until I got used to his strange narration and could willingly block it out. I don't understand why some of the mistakes were not edited out -- he stumbles over words, hangs on the end of words because he's lost his place in the script, leaves weird pauses at the wrong places. It's just a bad performance. I was surprised at this. Bill O'Reilly has been on television and radio for years. But he just didn't do justice to reading his own book. There are several other titles in this series I would like to listen to on audio....but I'm hoping he doesn't narrate them all. He is difficult to listen to.....just a strange performance and poor editing.

    Interesting facts. Poor narration. I am going to try other titles in this series. The series includes books on the crucifixion of Jesus, the assassination of Lincoln, John Kennedy's death, the Revolutionary war, and several other interesting topics. I will switch to the print books if the audio performances are all as bad as this one. I'm giving it a middle of the road rating....3 stars. I'd give the information a solid 4, but the weird narration dings it down a notch. Just a hard listen....strange performance.

  • David

    I have read and enjoyed many previous books by this author and was looking forward to this one. I find that his former life as a history professor contributes to the thoroughness of his research and provides factual information in an interesting way that makes it hard for me to put the book down. This one was no exception! Initially he discusses the winding down of the war in Europe leading up to the Nazi surrender with key members and leaders of the Reich scurrying for cover and escape. The book begins to focus a lot on Adolph Eichman who was intrumental in the "Final Solution" to exterminate the Jews of Europe. I thought, not another Eichman book, as I had already read several. But Eichman was tracked, found, captured, tried, and hanged and a large part of the book was still left to read! The remaining parts provided details about the capture and prosecution of additional mid and upper level Nazis and also closure for a few major villains like Josef Mengele, Martin Borman, etc. that had seemed to slip away into history and were forgotten. But digging up new information including DNA proof finally allows the door to be closed on some of these ring leaders. There was even a twist for one notorious character who was expecting to be assasinated by Israel's Mossad but, instead, finds himself working for them to take out Nazi scientists working for Egypt to develop missles and weapons to help destroy Israel. While I still don't like to watch or listen to the author interview people because of how he constantly interrupts them, I admire the work he does in writing factually-based history books. You need to read this if you are reading about WWII, Holocaust, Nazi war crimes, and other related topics. New stuff in here!

  • Lauren

    It's hard to read about evil Nazi's getting away with their crimes. Using he Butcher of Lyons for espionage against the Russians was a sad day for the US

  • Liza Fireman

    This book has some great parts that are super interesting and I learned several new historical facts. I was mostly interested in catching Eichmann and the story around it. I felt that this was one where the author has put all the details and took the time to really tell a story. In many of the other cases later, I felt the author rushed into telling a quick summary, and it was less compelling in the way it was told. I was always very interested in the Holocaust, and this book brings information of after the war, and how Nazis were found after trying to disappear.

    Eichmann was caught because of love. A love story between his son, Nick, and a half Jewish woman in Argentina. When she figured that this might be Eichmann, she helped catching him, and the story is really interesting.
    And it is love that is finally flushing Adolf Eichmann from hiding. His twenty-year-old son Nicholas—known alternately as Klaus or Nick—has adapted well to life in Buenos Aires. While his father still pretends to be Ricardo Klement, his four sons keep the family surname. The tall, blue-eyed Nicholas is fond of riding horses and hunting pumas. He frequently spouts anti-Semitic rhetoric, so it will one day surprise him to learn that the pretty German immigrant, with whom he has fallen in love, is half-Jewish.
    It was also interesting how they missed Eichmann at some point mistaking the owner of the house, an Austrian person to be Eichmann and not checking the tenant.

    The south America and especially Peron's relationship with the Nazis was very interesting, and explained a lot of how Nazis hid for years in Argentina and the area. Juan and Eva Perón’s deep ties to the Nazi Party. During Perón’s previous career as a military attaché, he toured Germany just as the Second World War began. In the process, he developed a disturbing respect for the efficient manner in which the Nazis waged war. He also shares their anti-Semitic views and actively works to prevent Jewish migration to Argentina. Perón’s personal secretary and intelligence chief, Rodolfo “Rudi” Freude, is a Nazi sympathizer whose father funneled German money into Perón’s first presidential election campaign in 1946.

    It is a very easy read, and if everything would be told in the same way like the Eichmann story I would go with 4 stars. Because it was too fast paced from about half the book, I will go with 3 stars.

  • Mary Jo

    Very interesting despite its horrific subject. Dismaying in how many of the SS men and women never faced punishment. Disturbing to find out the US paid social security to some of them.

  • Erica

    I found this book fascinating. I enjoyed the news style writing and all of the history. It's amazing to me the atrocities that people can do to one another. It was sad all of the countries, including the US, that harbored and turned a blind eye to many of these criminals.

  • Christina DeVane

    Wow, just wow!! SOO much history that I never knew happened!! Such an intriguing read it was hard to put down! Catching head SS leaders went on for decades, and some Nazis probably still live today! -crazy! There were just so many amazing stories I can’t begin to describe! It’s frustrating to learn that so many Nazis got away, but all of them will stand before the ultimate Judge! Highly recommend for everyone!! I think these parts of history are important to learn, not just about the war itself.

  • Emiliya Bozhilova

    Успеваемостта в наказанието на нацистките идеолози на окончателното решение, както и главните палачи - в ретроспекцията на изминалите години след края на втората световна война - клони към нула. Мнозина са взети след войната под крилото на ЦРУ, други намират убежище и дори препитание по специалността си при амбициозните военни хунти в Латинска Америка. Трети необезпокоявани си живеят и съвсем легално работят в структурите на Федерална Република Германия, издействайки дори пенсии за бившите си другари от СС. Нюрнбергският процес е и��ал огромен морален отзвук, но осъдените са малко, голяма част - пуснати на свобода през 50-те.

    Йозеф Менгеле умира почти седемдесетгодишен при плуване. На същата почетна възраст Клаус Барби е призован най-сетне да се замисли за делата си, но тъй като мисленето не му е силна страна, не го прави. Адолф Айхман единствен е отвлечен от МОСАД и обесен в Израел. На фона на останалите кротко угаснали от естествена смърт старци от бившия СС той е абсолютно изключение.

    Не знам каква е била целта на авторите на книгата. Стилът на описание е като от евтин комикс, обясняващ как Супермен сега ще се спусне и ще изчисти света от тази свинщина. Е, Супермен така и не се появява, а бомбастичните изречения дразнят на фона на липсата на каквато и да е справедливост. Никой не я търси - съюзниците използват връзките и знанията на оцелелите нацисти за свои цели, а жертвите просто са уморени от спомени и кошмари. Анализ почти липсва. Повтаря се на равни интервали кои са добрите и кои лошите. Да не се объркаме случайно. Фактология има, но слабо поднесена, в стил възстановка на средновековен рицарски турнир в научнопопулярен филм.

    Авторите са търсили сензация и лесни пари от лесно четиво, без да вложат грам разбиране за ужаса, за който говорят. SS for dummies. Лошото е, че там такива тъпанари не е имало. Само убийци. И то безнаказани.

    1,5 звезди

  • Linda Lipko

    A difficult book to read, not only because of the subject matter, but because of the poor writing. The book outlines the notorius Nazi war criminals. In detail, the authors outline the horror and sheet barbarity done to helpless Jews at the hands of men and women. Josef Mengele performed incredibly painful tests of bodies. He had a particular penchant for twins. Klaus Barbie and Adolf Eichmann, both high on the chain of those who not only followed Hitler's rules, but made some of their own along the way.

    The good guys are those who years after the pain of the death and torture of their family members could not be forgotten, systematically went after, hunted down the scum of what was the Nazi killing machine.

    Reading through the book, but mid-way, I was weary of the writing Yet, no many how many times I am read of a world gone mad, like many, I wonder about the souls of these people. How is it they felt justified in killing the innocent. Even on trial, they claimed innocence because they merely were following the orders of others.

  • Carlos

    Nice to read a nonfiction book after a long while . Reading about defeated Nazis is always interesting. Fast paced and an easy format .

  • Eric

    Another solid, fast moving history by O'Reilly and co-author Dugard. Sordid details about the Nazi perpetrators during WWII and interesting facts about those who hunted them after the war.

    These "Killing" books are fairly short at 250 to 300 pages, but pack a lot of information. I thank my oldest son, Mike, for sending me these books. From those Mike sent, I still have Kennedy and Reagan. I may also take a gander at "Killing Patton." Some interesting conspiracy theories about the General's death I have run into before.

  • Sotiris Makrygiannis

    1/3 of the book is related to the capture of 1 war criminal the rest is about how SS escaped to Latin America. How far right leaders protected them down there, including the Peron that looks like that used his wife Eva Peron to throw ashes to public eyes (need to study this more). Funnily, Hitler fired Himmler for some reason and covers a bit how was captured. Mossad operations and the "Avengers", the dilemmas between the Jewish community of what is a good Jew and if they should forgive them. Looks like that they didn't and the hunt is still on

  • Nicky Billou

    The Killing Series of Books are an American treasure bringing great moments of history to life for a popular audience. This one is particularly good, especially in light of the crypto-fascist left copying SS and SA tactics to suppress free speech.

    I highly recommend it!

  • Joanna Jennings

    Whoa. So hard to read about the atrocities committed, but so fascinating, especially the kidnapping of Eichmann. O’Reilly’s style is like his news reporting, which I find difficult to follow at times, but this book was so interesting... Nazis living in fear, trying to escape back to normal life after brutality of the worst imaginable. But in the end Nazis and their hunters alike will die. Only the Judge of all the earth can make it right.

  • Carol Storm

    Not great, but a lot better than I expected. O'Reilly pulls no punches about the way powerful institutions like the CIA and the Catholic church helped Nazi war criminals escape to South America and hide from justice for years. The chapters on how Adolph Eichmann was kidnapped and brought to justice are really fascinating.