| Title | : | The Body Never Lies: The Lingering Effects of Hurtful Parenting |
| Author | : | |
| Rating | : | |
| ISBN | : | 0393328635 |
| ISBN-10 | : | 9780393328639 |
| Language | : | English |
| Format Type | : | Paperback |
| Number of Pages | : | 240 |
| Publication | : | First published January 1, 2004 |
The Body Never Lies: The Lingering Effects of Hurtful Parenting Reviews
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Me recomendaron este libro por instagram, así que ¡muchas gracias! No conocía a la autora, y siempre me pone contenta descubrir escritoras nuevas. Alice Miller (1923 - 2010) nació en Polonia, en el seno de una familia judía. Vivió la persecución nazi y cuando pasó la guerra tomó una nueva identidad estudiando en Suiza. Obtuvo su doctorado en filosofía, psicología y sociología, y fue una reconocida psicóloga por su trabajo sobre el maltrato infantil y los efectos de este en la sociedad (así como en la vida de los individuos).
Me alegra ver que hay tantos libros de ella traducidos. En este en concreto, aborda la sacralización de los padres y el cuarto mandamiento: «Honrarás a tu padre y a tu madre». Este exige amar a los padres ocultando una peligrosa amenaza. ¿Qué ocurre con las personas que han sido maltratadas desde su infancia? ¿Qué pasa cuando se reprimen todas las emociones: el odio, la rabia, la tristeza, la indignación, etc. para amar a esos padres? Que el cuerpo se rebela. Por medio de historias y biografías de escritores como Proust o Virginia Woolf entre otros expone las consecuencias de negar el sufrimiento y da algunas ideas para salir del autoengaño (además de encontrar una persona profesional en salud mental competente y empática con la víctima, no de lado de los padres, sino de lado del niño). -
Ideea principală a cărții pare a fi următoarea: dacă cineva suferă ar fi din pricina faptului că a fost maltratat de părinți și nu a avut curajul să riposteze și să-și exprime sentimentele de revoltă. Reprimarea conduce automat la grave tulburări psihice. Cîteva rezumate școlărești (despre Cehov, Dostoievski, Rimbaud, Proust, Joyce, Virginia Woolf etc.) ar trebui să ilustreze teza autoarei. N-o ilustrează aproape deloc. Nu-mi amintesc ca Proust sau Joyce să fi fost maltratați de părinți. Virginia Woolf a fost chinuită de frații vitregi...
Nimic nu este convingător în acest volum. Inexactitățile biografice abundă. Nietzsche avea 4 ani cînd i-a murit părintele. N-a fost persecutat de nimeni. Faptul că tatăl lui Dostoievski l-ar fi bătut sălbatic pe viitorul prozator (fiindcă a fost un moșier alcoolic) e numai o simplă bănuială. Nu rezultă de nicăieri. Dostoievski nu-l pomenește în corespondență. Nu pentru că și-ar fi refulat sentimentele, ci pentru că l-a ignorat pur și simplu. Marcel Proust nu a fost un copil nedorit, dimpotrivă. Nimeni n-a ținut să-l umilească. Yukyo Mishima nu poate fi numit „celebrul poet japonez” decît dacă nu știi aproape nimic despre literatura lui. A scris teatru NO și proză.
Pentru a fi crezută pe cuvînt, Alice Miller simplifică drastic lucrurile. Ba mai și pune de la ea. Pretinde că le-a scris prelaților de la Vatican (care tocmai asta așteptau din Elveția: o misivă terapeutică) și i-a sfătuit cu binișorul să-și divulge frustrările adunate în copilărie. Din păcate, n-a avut succes: „E imposibil să trezești mila în bărbați...” (p.60).
În timp ce îngroașă în chip grotesc teza lui Freud cu privire la importanța decisivă a „traumelor” din prima copilărie, pretinde că Sigmund Freud a susținut teorii aiuristice. Mai mult, numitul Freud a avut o influență malignă și asupra Virginiei Woolf (p.36).
Aș fi vrut să menționez un amănunt din biografia mamei lui Arthur Rimbaud, Marie Catherine Vitalie Rimbaud (1825 - 1907), dar nu mai am nici timp și nici nu vreu să lungesc o recenzie despre o carte lamentabilă.
Traducerea semnată de Despina Naghi e mai mult decît stîngace. Din păcate, în România, se traduce tot mai neglijent. -
The author spends a lot of time arguing that the commandment to "honor thy parents" causes a lot of harm, especially to children whose parents were abusive in one way or another.
I've known several abuse survivors, some of whom still question themselves as to whether it really happened, or if it could have been as bad as they remember, or have spent a lot of time finding excuses for their parents. In that sense, I think this book could be useful for affirming those experiences and allowing healing.
On the other hand, the author makes connections between psychological events and purely physical illness without really justifying it. I'm fully willing to believe that some illnesses can have psychosomatic components, but it seems a bit much to say that an interaction with her parents lead to a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer two weeks later.
In addition, the first section of the book is the author's analysis of the writings of several famous authors, attempting to show that their misery and illness were caused by abose or neglect from their parent figures. I find such historical reinterpretation somewhat suspect at any time, but especially when it seems directly contradicted by what the person actually wrote and thought themselves.
All in all, yes, a valuable book for people struggling with parental abuse issues. But not without its own flaws. -
این کتاب در مورد آثار تنبیه بدنی و روانی در دوران کودکی از جانب خانواده و به خصوص پدر صحبت میکنه و جنبههای روانشناختی رو بررسی میکنه. در مورد نویسندگان معروف هم صحبت میشه در مورد روابطی که در دوران کودکی با پدر و مادر خود داشتند و در آینده چه تاثیری در زندگی آنها گذاشته.
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It's books like this one that give the field of psychology a bad reputation. The Body Never Lies is completely unscientific and, I would say, even dangerous.
Let me save you 200 long-winded pages and summarise the book's idea in a single sentence: bad parenting can lead to mental or physiological problems in adulthood and the only way to get well is to admit your true feelings towards your parents and stop loving them unconditionally. However, the author doesn't specify what exactly bad parenting is, that's up to every reader's interpretation.
It's so easy to make people feel victims of some wrongdoing, be it by the government, the rich, another race, sex, one's significant other and now parents. I believe the author's popularity is a testament to that. It's a cheap trick, really, and it always reminds me of a great scene from American Beauty when . The Body Never Lies might convince you that the treatment you received from your parents in childhood is responsible for your health problems, poor relationship choices, low mood or violent behaviour. And that I think is dangerous.
But the main problem with the author's proposition is that it's completely unfounded. Alice Miller uses phrases like "leaves not a slightest doubt", "self-evident truth", which apparently makes her immune to the requirement to provide evidence that rheumatic disorders, tuberculosis or cancer can be caused by maltreatment of children. Her references are magazine articles and her own other books. She even says that if you find her thesis unconvincing, it might be because you are still repressing your childhood trauma and hence cannot admit your true feelings towards your parents. You can't lose an argument with the reasoning like that.
I'll give you one example from the book which perfectly summarises everything wrong with its logic. The example concerns a French serial killer and rapist Patrice Alègre, who, according to the author, in childhood was beaten by his father and his mother failed to protect him. Alice Miller then provides a far-fetched explanation of Patrice's killings and rapes: his victims were basically proxies for his mother – it was her the killer was hurting in his head for not protecting him from his father in childhood. The first problem I see is that this is a cherry-picked anecdotal piece of evidence. How often don't abused children become serial killers? How often serial killers are from decent parents? Alice Miller's account is based on some article and doesn't reference any actual scientific paper linking childhood abuse to violent behaviour later in life. Furthermore, if Patrice indeed killed women because he wanted to actually kill his mother, why did he rape them? Did he want to rape his mother, too? Why didn't he kill men instead? After all, young Patrice's father was the one beating him. It's ridiculous.
What's even funnier is Alice Miller's use of metaphors to explain childhood trauma as a cause of illness. For instance, she says that too much of attachment to one's mother in childhood manifests as asthma since it causes a person to inhale more air (a metaphor for love) than they can exhale (that's not even how asthma works). Similarly, anorexia, according to the author, is an inability to find satisfaction in food, because what the person suffering from it actually needs is a different kind of nourishment, i.e. motherly love they were denied in their childhood. I suppose the argument in these cases is that if it sounds similar, it must work in a similar way as well.
The Body Never Lies reads like an advertisement for Alice Miller's psychotherapy services. She calls herself an "enlightened witness" and constantly bashes other psychotherapists for adhering to the so-called "traditional morality" and "poisonous pedagogy". She considers herself contrarian, a heretic (because the fourth commandment requires one to "honour thy father and thy mother") and even compares herself to Galileo Galilei with regard to the controversy they both were advocates of. I find that especially amusing since Galileo Galilei is considered the father of the scientific method, while Alice Miller is more like the mother of unfounded reasoning.
I'll say one good thing about the author – her talent for paraphrasing the same three sentences without any repetitions to fill some 200-page book with them is truly remarkable. Though, it makes for a slog of a read.
All in all, it's the worst book I have ever read: it's dull, it's poorly argued and it's divisive. I would only recommend it to those self-righteous parents who think they know something about raising kids just because they read some "psychology" book. For everybody else I'd suggest The Demon-Haunted World, which isn't perfect, but, in my opinion, much better treatment of repressed memories and childhood trauma and such. -
This is a bad book.
Don't get me wrong - the idea itself, that your body will get ill if you don't respect your needs and emotions, that the morality of respecting your parents often hinders your journey to health and truth - with this I agree.
But it is so poorly written. The author derives stories about artists from single sentences with not much evidence whatsoever. Considering the author is a scientist - and as a psychologist she very much is one - the lack of scientific methodology is outrageous. She interprets everything in favour of her theories and repeats herself throughout the book so many times it gets unbelievably annoying. Moreover, the fictional diary at the end sounds so artficial, so pompous... no, please don't do that ever again.
It was an important idea presented in a horrible, unscientific, biased way. -
This book was unlike any other that I've read on this topic. I read it with great interest and it was refreshing to read some viewpoints so unlike the ones you come across all the time.
I agree with much of what she says and thinks, but not on everything.
She is very very pro child/pro victim, and does not make any concessions at all to abusive parents who do not stop sexual or physical abuse of their children by their spouses or caretakers. It was good to read a book that is all about the victim, their hurts, their needs and how their adult lives were impacted by being abused as children.
Some interesting points of view that I hadn't come across before were that adult children need not try to balance out the good and the bad in their childhoods because doing so would make them feel compassion on their parents especially as they age, also the total disregard of the 4th commandment, the refusal to believe in forgiveness as a tool in moving on, the lack of need of a spiritual life/outlook and not making excuses for parents despite their own upbringing.
When you have been victimized it can be very painful to have lay people or professionals make excuses for violent abusive parents, so reading a book that is so totally pro-child was good, and while I do believe that a total separation from abusive parents can be a good thing and necessary, there are shades of grey in a person's healing of their past, they may not need a total amputation of the parents, your spiritual life and for understanding even a teensy bit what may have made someone act as they do.
I definitely believe that the after effects of abuse endured as a child can result in many maladies as an adult, particularly nervous complaints such as insomnia, hyper vigilence, OCD, eating disorders, migraines, etc but I do not believe as the author suggests that every woman who develops uterine cancer gets it due to having been molested or every obese person was abused, many were, but not all, so a blanket statement here is not apt. -
Eh! Maybe my hopes were too high after being so enamored of The Drama of the Gifted Child. The thesis is one that I whole heartedly subscribe to; the mind-body connection is clearly illustrated in both my personal and professional life.
However, I found the initial part of the book weak and dull; that she beats the reader to the punch by pronouncing the impotence of the presented material (connecting physical ailments of historical figures to their emotional loose ends from childhood) does nothing to empower her argument. What is frustrating is that I intuitively know and believe in what she puts forth, but she fails to offer the quantitative, or even quality qualitative, muscle I was looking for to support my intuitions/beliefs. -
Θα ξεκινήσω με αυτά που με προβλημάτισαν στο βιβλίο το οποίο εν συνόλω βρήκα εξαιρετικό,δεδομένου ότι γράφτηκε πριν από από 10 χρόνια. Η εκπαιδευτικός και συγγραφέας πολλών εκλαικευμένων βιβλίων ψυχανάλυσης (με διασημότερο το " Οι Φυλακές της Παιδικής μας Ηλικίας") Alice Miller πέθανε το 2010, έχοντας δώσει αγώνες σε όλη της τη ζωή για να διαφωτίσει γονείς, ασθενείς, εκπαιδευτικούς και την Εκκλησία για τις συνέπειες της παιδικής κακοποίησης, υπό όποια μορφή και ένταση αυτή συμβαίνει. Όλα της τα βιβλία διαπραγματεύονται αυτό το θέμα και διέπονται από μια εμμονική σχεδόν προσπάθεια παράθεσης παραδειγμάτων, βιογραφιών και περιπτώσεων για να "αποδείξουν" την ισχύ του βασικού της επιχειρήματος ότι δηλαδή παιδική κακοποίηση ίσον δυσεπίλυτα προβλήματα στην ενήλικη ζωή με το τίμημα να το πληρώνουν και οι μεταγενέστερες γενεές, τα παιδιά των παιδιών ή ακόμη και ολόκληρες χώρες/κοινωνίες (δικτάτορες, δήμιοι, εγκληματίες)
Στο παρόν βιβλίο αναλύει τις επιπτώσεις που δημιουργούν τα σωματικά ή/και ψυχικά τραύματα που υπέστη ένα παιδί από τους γονείς του στο ενήλικο σώμα του. Η σύγχρονη ιατρική φυσικά και δέχεται πλέον τέτοιες προσεγγίσεις όμως είναι τελείως απλουστευμένο αυτό που υποστηρίζει η συγγραφέας ότι λ.χ εμφανίζεται ένας όγκος λόγω ψυχικών τραυμάτων και εξαφανίζεται όταν με τη βοήθεια ενός ψυχοθεραπευτή αναλύσει κανείς τη γονεϊκή σχέση και "αποδράσει " από τις επιπτώσεις της στην πλέον ενήλική του ζωή.
Αν δεν δώσεις μεγάλη έμφαση στην υπεραπλούστευση αυτή που διατρέχει όλο το έργο (προσωπικά μου ήταν δύσκολο, γνωρίζοντας την παθοφυσιολογία των νοσημάτων) αντιθέτως μετατοπίσεις το ενδιαφέρον και τη ματιά σου στο κύριο ζήτημα που απασχολεί την συγγραφέα, αποκαλύπτεται μπροστά σου ένα κείμενο που ποτέ δε θα μετανιώσεις που διάβασες.
Φυσικά μπορεί να συνδεθείς σε διαφορετικό βαθμό με όσα προτάσσονται, ανάλογα με το αν και πόσο αναγνωρίσεις και ανασύρεις παιδικές αναμνήσεις και φόβους, ωστόσο, σίγουρα υπάρχουν στοιχεία που θα βρεις να σε αφορούν και που συνειδητοποιείς καμμιά φορά με έκπληξη. Νομίζω ότι το βιβλίο τελικά λειτουργεί όχι μόνο διαφωτιστικά αλλά και αυτο-βοηθητικά. Επίσης το βρίσκω ενδιαφέρον για τους εκπαιδευτικούς αλλά και για τους επαγγελματίες υγείας (και ψυχικής υγείας) που ίσως να μπορέσουν να έχουν στο μυαλό τους περισσότερο αυτή διάσταση στις διαγνωστικές και θεραπευτικές τους προσεγγίσεις, σε ατομικό ή κοινωνικό/πληθυσμιακό επίπεδο.
Η μετάφραση είναι εξαιρετική και η έκδοση από τις αγαπημένες μου: μαλακό εξώφυλλο και υπέροχη γραμματοσειρά.
Παραθέτω ένα μικρό απόσπασμα:
Πιστεύω ότι πολλοί άνθρωποι θα αντιδρούσαν με τον ίδιο τρόπο αν κάποιος τους έλεγε "Δε χρειάζεται να αγαπάς και να τιμάς τους γονείς σου. Σου έχουν κάνει κακό. Δεν χρειάζεται να αναγκάζεις τον εαυτό σου να νιώθει πράγματα που δε θέλεις πραγματικά. Με το ζόρι τίποτα καλό δε γίνεται. Στη δική σου περίπτωση μπορεί να λειτουργήσει καταστροφικά, γιατί στο τέλος θα την πληρώσει το σώμα σου" -
Súper SÚPER esclarecedor y bueno. Subrayé algunas partes, pero son tan dolorosas que al final preferí no ponerlas. Es súper interesante la sicología. Con esto no digo que según yo la autora tenga razón en toodas sus teorías y visiones, pero sin duda que tiene mucho sentido en muchas de sus partes. Además, se avanza muy fácil y se agregan un montón de citas interesantes.
Me encantó leerlo. No es para cobardes, eso sí, porque des-idealiza la relación entre padres e hijos, y nadie nunca quiere pensar mal de sus padres, o pensar que algún día lo harán los hijos. Pero lo que uno saca de esta lectura, vale mucho la pena de todos modos.
Gracias, Alice Miller, por atreverte a escribir un libro tan valiente. -
اگر کودکی سختی داشتید و به نظرتون والدینتون تربیت درست و خوبی نداشتن حتما این کتاب رو بخونید
اولین بار بود که حس کردم حق دارم نسبت به کودکیم حس های خوبی نداشته باشم و حق دارم خشمگین و غمگین باشم
در آخرین صفحات کتابم و تغییر رو در بند بند وجودم و روحم حس می کنم. دارم به یه پذیرشی می رسم که حس رهایی و آزادی داره
البته توصیه میشه حتما در کنار خوندن این کتاب، روان درمانی هم بشید توسط یه روانشناس ترجیحا با رویکرد هیجان محور -
Όσα θες και υποψιαζεσαι για σένα και για την οικογένεια σου είναι εδώ γραμμένα με τον πιο γλαφυρό τρόπο σε σημεία αυτοκτονίας. Καταπληκτική, και της βγάζω οσα καπέλα διαθέτω.
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The belief that our repressed emotions can cause physical ailments is nothing new. What Miller offers that feels groundbreaking is this: children of abusers need not forgive their parent(s) in order to be free of the pain and damage. As a therapist Miller feels her profession too often preaches the typical morality of "honor thy parents" and finds that most counselors believe forgiveness is key to the patient being able to move on. Miller instead believes a therapist should become an "enlightened witness" who gives the adult permission to cut abusive parents out of their lives or set strict boundaries for any ongoing relationship: "we can - indeed we must - break off our infant attachment to parents who abused us if we want to become adults and live a life of our own peace." Why? Because child abusers are frequently too toxic for any type of authentic relationship; because even as adults, abuse victims will rationalize their parents' behavior in trying to see the good qualities of their abusers; because "the 'love' of formerly abused children for their parents is not love, it is an attachment fraught with expectations, illusions, and denials, and it exacts a high price from those involved in it." Powerful stuff, and very liberating to hear a professional affirm that some parents are horrible people, and their adult children are justified in refusing to accept that poison into their lives. I gave this 3 stars because Miller sometimes belabors the point, but in her defense, some of her ideas may be be hard for some to swallow. So I'll give her the benefit of the doubt with the endless case studies and examples, including many literary luminaries from throughout history.
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I like that she gives examples of authors in this book. I didn't know about Virginia Woolf's childhood or the reasons for her suicide. The author repeatedly comes back to the point that survivors of abusive parents need to let go of their need for love from those parents. I wish she had given some examples of children who did let go of that, who were either thrown out of the house or ran away, who had to become independent adults without that support. Because living without family is traumatic, not having parents and trying to navigate the world and become a healthy independent adult is damn near impossible without the support of parents, and without ever having known unconditional love. People don't want to cut ties with their parents or family, even if they are toxic or were abusive, because in some cases these would leave them homeless, or be pushed into other abusive situations. There aren't safe alternatives to parents, even if they're the worst. At least not until people become self-sufficient adults. At which point, it's still difficult to let go of family ties. Even as adults... parents are supposed to love us. It's hard to let go of that hope that maybe they'll change. Or maybe if -you- change, become perfect, then you'll earn that love.
I wish she had acknowledged the difficulty of living without parents, especially of growing up without parents. It's pretty close to impossible to make anything of yourself without that support. I know that I'm the exception, not the rule. Most people who grew up without that support would not be able to graduate high school, let alone get higher education and be able to financially support themselves.
I also don't care for the religious stuff, not all of us were ingrained with Christian mythology. And I didn't care for her belief that the trauma of childhood can cause physical ailments and letting go of that trauma or healing from it can heal those physical ailments. Child abuse doesn't cause cancer. And you can't cure cancer with happy thoughts. Her constant anecdotal examples of people curing themselves of allergies and asthma, and other physical, medical conditions, made me question the validity of her work as a whole. -
موضوع كلي اكثر آثار ميلر" انكار رنج هاي كودكي در درون ماست".
هر يك از اين كتابها به جنبه اي از اين آثار مي پردازد و در اين كتاب، اثرات پايدار تربيت خشن بر جسم و روح انسان در دوران بزرگسالي بررسي شده است.
بخش اول كتاب به مثالهايي از زندگي چندين تن از نويسندگان نامي اشاره شده است كه بنا بر روايت هاي تاريخي دوران كودكي سختي سپري كرده اند و نمود اين اتفاقات در نوشته ها و زندگي آنها تحليل شده است.
بخش دوم كتاب به بررسي سرگذشت تعدادي از مراجعين و آثار تربيت سنتي در شخصيت فرد پرداخته شده است.
در بيشتر مواقع والدين اولين كساني هستند كه كودك مي شناسد و نياز به تاييد از طرف آنها در كودك بسيار قوي است و اين امر حتي منجر به سودمند فرض كردن آزار والدين و انكار آن از طرف كودك ميشود.
نمونه هاي فراواني از انكار اسيب والدين و توهم فرض كردن آنها در بزرگسالي وجود دارد كه سركوب اين خاطرات منجر به ناهنجاري هاي روحي و جسمي در بزرگسال شده است.
سركوب واكنش هاي طبيعي بدن به خشم و عصبانيت براي جلوگيري از تنبيه بيشتر و ترد شدن از طرف والدين بوده است.
در تمامي فرهنگ ها احترام و تكريم والدين از غير قابل پرسش ترين آموزه هاست و حتي بخشش والدين آسيب زا از طرف بسياري از درمانگران توصيه ��ده ولي بنا به مطالعات اين نويسنده پذيرش واقعيت اتفاقات و عدم انكار آنها منجر به نتايج بهتري مي شود.
عمده مثالهايي از خشونت والدين كه در اين كتاب آماده است آزار جنسي و تنبيهات بدني بي دليل از طرف والدين الكلي بوده است و يا والديني كه خود قرباني نسل قبلي بوده و تنبيهات بدني را جز انكار ناپذير تربيت ميدانند، بيشتر افرادي كه به درمانگر مراجعه ميكننند وقتي متوجه اين اثار و دليل اشفتگي هاي خود مي شوند كه ديگر به والدين دسترسي ندارند و حل اين تعارض ها و پذيرش واقعيت ها شروع رهايي انها از آسيبهايي است كه بي كمترين تقصيري تجربه كرده اند. -
من در سال 2002 نتیجه پژوهشهایم را درباره آثار تنبیه بدنی به واتیکان ارائه کردم و با درخواست حمایت از کاردینالها، از مقامات واتیکان خواستم برای آگاهسازی والدین جوان در این زمینه کاری انجام دهند. هیچ کدام از کاردینالها کوچکترین علاقهای به این موضوع مهم اما مغفولمانده کودکانی که مورد آزار فیزیکی قرار گرفتهاند، نشان ندادند. حتی هرگز کوچکترین نشانهای از محبت و گذشت و بخشش مسیحی در رابطه با این موضوع مشاهده نکردم. اما موقع محاکمه صدام دقیقا همان نمایندگان کلیسا میخواستند نشان دهند که دارای حس محبت و گذشت هستند. مخصوصا که این محبت را نه به بچههای آزاردیده یا قربانیان صدام، بلکه به خود صدام، یعنی شخصیت پدرگونه بیرحمی ارزانی میدارند که این دیکتاتور ترسناک نمایندگی میکرد.
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Το σώμα μας αναζητά την "τροφή" που δε δέχθηκε στην παιδική ηλικία και αυτή είναι η πηγή των δυστυχιών και του πόνου του στην ενηλικίωση σύμφωνα με την Alice Miller .
Διαβάζοντας το οπισθόφυλλο στο βιβλιοπωλείο μου ήταν αδύνατον να μην αγοράσω το συγκεκριμένο βιβλίο .Είναι διαχρονικό και το θέμα του "πρωταγωνιστεί " σε άπειρες συζητήσεις με φίλους κατά καιρούς .
Περιέχει αρκετά ενδιαφέρουσες αλλά κυρίως θλιβερές ιστορίες ανθρώπων που βίωσαν μία δυσάρεστη και σε πολλές περιπτώσεις σκληρή παιδική ηλικία .Η συγγραφέας αυτό που θέλει να δείξει είναι πως οι προσδοκίες από την Τέταρτη Εντολή που ορίζει να τιμάμε τη μητέρα και τον πατέρα μπορεί να κρατούν δεσμευμένο τον ασθενή από το να αποτινάξει πληγές του παρελθόντος που προκλήθηκαν από τους γονείς του .Οι αγαπημένες μου ιστορίες είναι αυτή του Σίλερ ,της Γουλφ αλλά αυτή που με στιγμάτισε και ταυτίστηκα περισσότερο είναι του Προυστ.
Τέλος ,θα κρατήσω το ότι η αποδοχή όλων των δεινών που περνάει κανείς καθώς επίσης και των συναισθημάτων του είναι υψίστης σημασίας για τη θεραπεία του ,το πέρασμά του σε έναν πιο υγιή τρόπο ζωής ,χωρίς απωθημένα , ανοιχτές πληγές και πισωγυρίσματα σε παλιά τραύματα και τη μακροημέρευση.
Το προτείνω σε όλους όσοι υπέστησαν ψυχοσωματικά προβλήματα είτε τώρα στην περίοδο της καραντίνας είτε και παλαιότερα και στους λάτρεις της ψυχολογίας .
4 αστέρια και όχι περισσότερα γιατί η Miller εστιάζει υπερβολικά στην Τέταρτη Εντολή μονοπωλώντας την ανάλυση .Προσωπικά ,θα ήθελα κάτι ακόμα διαφορετικό. -
This book is amazing in its power to enable people, to shift the stuck. I found the descriptions of people who stop eating and get diagnosed with anorexia or bulimia, make more sense than anything I've read on this topic. The idea of desperately trying to find nutrition metaphorically... yes. This is the second book of Alice Miller's I have read. Now, I have to read her entire shelf.
The body never lies - ‘Ultimately the body will rebel, even if it has temporarily been pacified with the help of drugs, nicotine, or medicine, it usually has the last word, because it is quicker to see through self-deception than the mind, particularly if the mind has been trained to function as an alienated self. We may ignore or deride the messages of the body, but its rebellion demands to be needed because its language is the authentic expression of our true selves and of the strength of our vitality.’
The idea of anorexia as 'the longing for genuine communication' is a chapter that should be much cited.
Feeding a person while wearing a façade face can only arouse suspicion. If people who have difficulties eating are fed food by indifferent/ abusive people, the food might feel like poison and instinct says you’re better off starving until you find a genuine person to eat beside.
And for young carers of parent's emotional states, coming to terms with the endowed position within the family, 'My mother needed me for the abreaction of her own injuries so that she could avoid having to actually feel them.'
Bitterness from lack of genuine communication, coldness, stupidity, fear… ‘Slam yourself down inwardly until there’s nothing left that might upset your mother or make her scared.’
And, ‘I have the feeling that I have to modify and regulate my life so that my mother doesn’t flip her lid, so that she’s just fine, even if there’s nothing left of me.’
‘The body never lies’ is the perfect book to gain the realisation that you are not here to take care of and try to love people who don’t care to love you. -
فرمان چهارم موسی میگه "پدر و مادرت را احترام بگذار". آلیس میلر اما میگه این فرمان بدترین فرمان موسیست؛ فرمانی که نه تنها بر خود اون اثر منفی گذاشته، بلکه انسانیت رو درگیر بیماریهای روحیای کرده که احساسات رو طوری سرکوب میکنن تا به صورت "درد جسمی" نمود پیدا کنن. میلر به عنوان یکی از پیشروان عرصهی روانشناسی کودک، نمیخواد بگه "بیاید از والدینمون متنفر باشیم"، برعکس میگه اگه توی بچگی تجربه آزار جنسی یا تنبیه جسمی از طرف والدین رو نداشتید، میتونید اسم حسی که به اونها دارید رو "عشق" بذارید❤
تربیت مسموم(تنبیه بدنی) باعث میشه نفرت، عصبانیت و حس بد توی حافظهی بدنمون باقی بمونه. هرچند با اصول اخلاقی سعی کنیم والدینمون رو ببخشیم یا کارهاشون رو فراموش کنیم، بدن چیزی به اسم اخلاق نمیشناسه. بدن واقعیتها رو ثبت میکنه و به شکل درد جسمی بروز میده. توی قسمت اول کتاب، میلر از افراد معروفی میگه که توی کودکی تربیت مسموم داشتن و زود مردن؛ دقیقا برعکس چیزی که ادیان میگن "به پدر و مادر خود نیکی کنید تا عمر طولانی داشته باشید."
آیا میلر توی کتابش دین رو محکوم میکنه؟ به نظر من چیزی که میلر توی کتاب محکوم میکنه، اطاعت بیچون و چرا از دین و از طرف دیگه تزریق اون به بچههاست.
همین تزریقات اخلاقی (و نه واقعی) باعث میشن که افرادی مثل هیتلر، جهانی رو به نابودی بکشن یا افرادی مثل کافکا جوونمرگ شن!
یادمه توی یکی از صفحات موسیقی اینستاگرام مردم میگفتن که درسته پدر و مادر خوانندهها آزارشون دادن ولی اگه نمیدادن، اون درد و رنجی که هنر رو آفرید درشون به وجود نمیومد:) درسته. بشریت همینقدر کثیف و خودخواهه...
کسی به عمر کم افرادی مثل کرت کوبین، اعضای کلاب ۲۷ و زجری که کشیدن به عنوان یه "کودک" اهمیتی نمیده. شاید چون ترجیح میده یه کودک زجر بکشه تا اینا شاهکار موسیقی گوش کنن یا شاید هم دلیلش رو میلر بهتر میدونست: "جامعه، فرهنگ و سنت، طرف بزرگسالانِ آزارگره، نه کودکان آزاردیده."
یکی از بهترین کتابهایی بود که هدیه گرفته بودم. -
این کتاب بیشتر از هر چیزی به رابطه شخص با تروماهای شخصیش و ارتباط اون با بدن فرد و بیماریهای جسمی میپردازه اما بیشتر در مسیر فلسفهبافی پیش میره تا مداخلهی روانشناختی.
به نظرم برای افرادی که میخوان راجع به روند درست درمان و اینکه دنبال چه مدل درمانگری و چه نوع رابطهی درمانیای باید باشن، مطلع بشن، کتاب خوبیه؛ اما برای یک درمانگر چارچوب عملی و مداخلهای رو پیشنهاد نمیده و شاید چندان از این جهت کارآمد نباشه هرچند که میتونه کمک کنه که اهمیت دورهی کودکی برای درمانگران پررنگتر بشه.
ضمنا اگر دست اندر کاران این نشر این نقد رو دیدن باید بگم که کتاب احتیاج به ویرایش داره چون غلطهای املایی و نگارشی فاحشی در کتاب وجود داره که متن رو بالکل غلط میکنه. -
Yetenekli Çocukğun Dramı'nı okuduktan sonra aynı felsefenin devamında Miller'ın düşüncesinin nasıl geliştiğini görmek iyi geldi. Ayrıca kendimle ilgili çok şeyi anlamama, algılamama ve davranışlarımı yeniden gözden geçirmeme yaradı. Okuyunca boyum bir karış uzadı mı desem ne desem, en azından bazı sorular, açık uçlu gariplikler yerine oturdu.
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Çok enteresan bir kitaptı. Sansasyonel ve biraz da saldırgandı diyebilirim. Küçük çocukları dövmek, istismar etmek, reddetmek, korkutmak, sevgiden yoksun bırakmak, gereksiz ve fazla cezalandırmak, duymamak, dinlememek vs hepsi şiddettir ve bu şiddetin izleri bedende kalır diyor Alice Miller. Anne ve babayı affetmeye, onlarla barışmaya çalışmak bedenimizin çeşitli hastalıklar ile tepki vermesine sebep olur. Yapılması gereken anne ve babaya duyulan öfke ve diğer duyguları kabul etmek ve yüzleşmektir. Aslında çok beğendim kitabı sadece bu duygularla yüzleşme ve bunlarla yaşayarak başa çıkma kısmını biraz eksik buldum, hep orası biraz daha açılacak diye okudum, okudum ve hop kitap bitti gibi geldi bana. Psikolojiye meraklılara öneririm.
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This is a must read for therapists and people in any kind of realtional or attatchment based therapy.
I found this book fantastic as a help tool for people in my practice who are dealing with issues around abusive parents or trauma. It gives one the courage to look at the bonds of parenthood and question the realationships with parents who have been cruel or abusive.
I loved it. -
توی یکی از جلسات روانکاوی،روانکاوم گفت بدن هرگز دروغ نمیگه و همیشه به بدنت توجه کن. بعد گفت اصلا ما یه کتاب داریم به همین عنوان. منم مشتاق شدم و کتاب رو خوندم.
صلاحیت بررسی و درستی کتاب رو ندارم. ولی ایدههاش به نظرم درخشانه. برای آدمی که پی درمان و کند و کاو روانش رو میگیره، این کتاب باید ��وندنی باشه. -
کودکان همیشه مشتاقانه والدینشان را دوست دارند حتی اگر انها هزاران بلا سرشان بیاورند.
انچه اشکار است این است که سیستم اموزشی و تربیت افراد را به والدینشان وابسته نگه میدارد . انچه در نظر گرفته نمیشود بهایی است که بدن باید به خاطر ان بپردازد. -
Belki de biz (ve onlar) duygulardan, acıdan, korkudan ve öfkeden o kadar korkmuyoruz da, anne ve babanızın bize ne yaptığını öğrenmekten, bilmekten korkuyoruz.
Çoğunluğu erken yaşta vefat eden ve hayatları boyunca çeşitli kronik rahatsızlıklarla ve zorluklarla boğuşan yazarlardan yola çıkan Alice Miller çocuklukta yaşanan ve toplum baskısı, dini inanç gibi sebeplerle yüzleşilmeyen acıların bedenlerimiz üzerindeki etkilerini tartışıyor bu kitapta.
Proust, Joyce, Mişima gibi yazarların sahip olduğu hastalıkların ve ölüm sebebinin hesaplaşılmayan çocukluk travmalarına bağlanması inandırıcı şekilde anlatılmamış. Sebep-sonuç ilişkisinin açık kurulamadığını düşünüyorum. Yazar benzer muameleye maruz kalıp uzun ömürlü olan kişilerden bahsetse de teorisine ters düşen vakalar için inandırıcı açıklama getiremiyor.
Duygusal boşluk, travma ya da kitaptaki ismiyle duygusal körlüğün beyinde, zihinde, bedende görünen sonuçları olduğu konusunda çoğu kişi hemfikir. Yazarın varmaya calıştığı sonucu anlıyorum fakat bu sonuca ulaşmak isterken kullandığı yöntemini ve anlatımını baştan savma, bilimsellikten uzak ve oldukça taraflı buldum. Kişisel önyargılarını ve öfkesini metne çok fazla yansıtmış. Sonsöz kısmında bu eleştirilere cevap da veriyor ama tatmin edici değil.
Kitabın olumlu taraflarından biri; benim şüpheyle yaklaştığım bir takım terapi anlayışı ve yöntemine ciddi eleştiriler getirilmiş olması. Bir de tabii yaşanılan her türlü travmaya rağmen anne babaya koşulsuz sevgi duyulması düşüncesi ve affetme mevzuları var. Bu hususlarda yazarla hemen hemen aynı fikirdeyim. Bazı ahlak ve din kuralları çoğu kişinin iyileşmesinde büyük bir engel teşkil ediyor.
Eleştirel bir gözle okunduğunda ufuk açan bir kitap ama metodik değil. Yazarın tamamen kendi çocukluğu ve yaşamı ile yüzleştiği bir eseri okumayı çok isterdim. -
The 2 stars are for the main point of this book; that it doesn't bring any good trying to honour parents who abused you and that the notion that you can only find peace through forgiveness is harmful. Other than that,it was all over the place and preposterous at times. Using deceased writers as examples claiming their illnesses that caused their death was directly caused by their parents mistreatment of them. It all got a bit too crazy for me when she writes a fictitious diary of one of her patients, in which the patient praises her gushingly.
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کتاب خوبی بود. چرا که نشون میداد خشونت تربیتی نه تنها اثر مثبت نداره بلکه اثر عکس داره. این کتابو در زمان مناسبی خوندم. زمانی که از لحاظ فکری از والدینم مستقل میشدم. نکته مهم اینه که از والدین فرشته نسازیم، محترم هستن ولی اونا هم آدم هستن. افرادی که میتونن قدمهای خطا هم بردارن و نه فقط یک بارو لزومی نداره ما هم در پیرویِ همون قدمها، قدم برداریم. -
Interesting and validating. Occaisionally she goes slightly over the top and draws conclusions I found a bit of a stretch. Also it can be repetetive, but I think that was on purpose, since the resistence to these ideas was part of the point. I'm glad this book was written, I think it's important.
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This book is part illuminating, part reductive in its repetition. Always brave.
This isn't my favorite of Alice Miller's books, but I love her for writing it.
