| Title | : | Ms. Marvel, Vol. 3: Crushed |
| Author | : | |
| Rating | : | |
| ISBN | : | 0785192271 |
| ISBN-10 | : | 9780785192275 |
| Language | : | English |
| Format Type | : | Paperback |
| Number of Pages | : | 112 |
| Publication | : | First published June 23, 2015 |
Love is in the air in Jersey City as Valentine’s Day arrives! Kamala Khan may not be allowed to go to the school dance, but Ms. Marvel is! Well sort of--by crashing it in an attempt to capture Asgard’s most annoying trickster! Yup, it’s a special Valentine’s Day story featuring Marvel’s favorite charlatan, Loki! And when a mysterious stranger arrives in Jersey City, Ms. Marvel must deal with...a crush! Because this new kid is really, really cute. What are these feelings, Kamala Khan? Prepare for drama! Intrigue! Romance! Suspense! Punching things! All this and more! The fan-favorite, critically acclaimed, amazing new series continues as Kamala Khan proves why she’s the best (and most adorable) new super hero there is! Plus, see what happens when S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Jemma Simmons goes undercover at Kamala’s school!
Collecting Ms. Marvel (2014) #12-15 and S.H.I.E.L.D. #2.
Ms. Marvel, Vol. 3: Crushed Reviews
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THIS WAS SO MUCH FUN AHHHH. I love that it was valentine's day themed & I love that Loki is in this trade. ALSO that agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. bonus comic at the end has me wanting to try out that comic book series! Overall loads of fun. If you're not reading Ms. Marvel you're missing out. :D
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I love Ms. Marvel and she just keeps getting better and funnier. Kamala is so sweet and funny. She has a best friend named Bruno that likes her more than she knows. She's also trying to work through the rules of her family and being Ms. Marvel.
Loki makes an appearance in this book =) How cool is that!
And poor Kamala thinks she has found love but it just doesn't work out. Sigh....
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2.5
I'm not sold on this title.
Kamala is still a starry-eyed heroine, and I like that she's a genuinely nice girl, but...
Her Pakistani background is supposed to help non white characters get some page time, and that's actually pretty fantastic.
But, holy hell! This representation of a Muslim family is sort of...depressing.
Swear to god, I feel so damn bad for this kid!
She can't go out and walk around (in broad daylight) with a guy she likes, because...What? WTF is going to happen if they go rent a movie at the corner store?
She ends up sneaking out of the house to hang out with him, and then (OMG!) she lets him drive her to school!
Sadly, he turns out to be an evil douchebag villain.
Um? Was that supposed to drive home the point that her parents were right and she never should have trusted an evil man?
That's not exactly the sort of message I'm comfortable sending to my little girls.
So, sorry, but that storyline left a bad taste in my mouth.
Then there's a whole panel about how hi-larious she thinks it is when her BFF, Bruno, invites her to a dance.
Because her parents would NEVER agree to that! Silly Bruno.
Besides, as Kamala's brother points out, he's the wrong race to date her. Sorry dude.
What. The. Fuck?
In my opinion, there are waaaaay too many people who aren't Kamala, who are deciding what she can and can't do.
Which would be ok, if she ever stood up to any of them and told them to stop it. But other than a few Grrrs and angry pouting, she just sort of goes along with it.
There's a cuteish story with Loki in the beginning, but, other than that, I couldn't work up any love for this volume.
I do still like Kamala, and I'm hoping that at some point she comes to her senses, and tells her family to back up off of her. You can tell that they love her, but it seems like a very dysfunctional sort of family dynamic.
I want to love this as much as everyone else seems to, so here's hoping the next volume will be awesome.
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Love is in the air, and Kamala Khan is the one most effected when an anonymous love letter arrives in her hands.
Oh, right, speaking of a nice young doctor: Kamran, an old family friend, who’s grown quite a lot since he and Kamala last got together, comes to visits. They get talking and notice pretty quickly how similar their tastes are.
By-the-bye, it was a great surprise for me to recognize a reference to a famous Bollywood actor!
But before they can get too close, her brother sets some boundaries.
Oh, and I forgot to mention: the family’s back!
Though the art style has changed pretty drastically from
the first volume, I'm glad to see that Kamala's charm hasn't.
But I do have to mentioned that the art had some great moments when we got to see just how clean the bottom of Ms Marvel's shoes are:
(I included the above one here just because of how beautiful it is!)
But back to discussing the events that went down here... with strict parents on her case, her best friend Bruno by her side and a whole lot of weird ensnaring Jersey City every day, Kamala soon realises that being a Superhero is...complicated. And when it’s not her brother intervening, it’s the damn city and its villains.
And to make matters worse, Kamran turns out to be both inhuman (the evil kind) and a victim-blaming prick:
Just when Kamala thought she'd met someone she could be herself with, Kamran showed his true colors, kidnapping her and bringing her to New Attilan-- where his duplicitous boss, Lineage, is staging a coup.
You don't mess with Ms Marvel without having some harm thrown your way. Kamala shows him just what it means messing with her.
And on her way out we get to know some incredible inside scoop:
I'm thinking of her brother, Aamir, but maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions...?
P.S. Did anyone else miss Lockjaw like crazy? I hope he makes a bigger comeback in volume four.
Overall, Ms. Marvel, Vol 3 was nice addition to Kamala’s life, but in hindsight didn’t really add anything to the ongoing story arc until the end. It was, however, a great way to spend my weekend in a flash.
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Things get surprisingly interesting as Kamala Khan has to face... Valentines' Day; Loki(!); a new antagonist called Kaboom; love and dating; more Inhuman contact; and a real fight for democracy! With all this going on you'd think it'd be messy, but the first person narrative voice of Kamala is just so spot on for an American youth with influences from New Jersey, Bangladesh, Islam, Inhumans and the Avengers! The overall writing and plotting is compelling and the clean art is a perfect accompaniment. Prepare to get crushed. 8 out of 12
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I love this series - and I think I’m falling in love with Kamala Khan too! It’ll never work - she’s a drawing, I’m a sketchy character…
The first issue in Ms Marvel, Volume 3: Crushed is a crossover with “hipster Viking” Loki who drops in on a Valentine’s Day dance at Kamala’s school looking for something magical for the All-Mother. It sets up the theme of this book: love, so get yer puke buckets out!
Bruno, Kamala’s buddy who works in the local store, is pining for Kamala but he’s embedded in the friend-zone. He’s also Italian-American and she’s Pakistani-American-Inhuman and her traditionally-minded parents want her to marry someone Pakistani. And then a Pakistani heart-throb called Kamran sweeps Kamala off her feet - what’s a lovesick fool to do?!
I should’ve mentioned this at the top of the review because it’ll disappoint a lot of people: there’s no Adrian Alphona in this book! Elmo Bondoc draws the Loki issue while Takeshi Miyazawa fills in for the rest. Miyazawa does draw a very good facsimile of Alphona’s style though and I didn’t mind it because, like I mentioned at the beginning, he really reveals Kamala as the beauty she is. And yeah I know that makes me sound pervy because she’s 16 but, wow, she is gorgeous in this book - she’s a goddamn heartbreaker (and she doesn’t even know it)! Not that Miyazawa draws her in anything revealing, I just loved the way he drew her face.
It’s also appropriate that Loki’s here because the story for this volume is, after the big Inventor storyline of the last couple books, very low-key (thankyou, thankyou!... I’ll get me coat). There are only four Ms Marvel issues in this volume. Kamala fights a couple NuHumans because it’s still a Marvel superhero comic but it’s mostly romance-centric. I liked it though, G. Willow Wilson handles it really well so it’s not sappy or boring, even though the Kamala-Kamran-Bruno triangle is a bit Disney-esque (I could see Bruno bursting into song: “Riff-raff, street rat, I’m not like that…”).
I can understand why it’s this way though because, like it or not, Battle World is on the way. Wilson couldn’t start any new big arcs for Kamala because the 616 universe, the Ultimates universe - it’s all being blowed up and clumped together into Battle World, the result of this summer’s big event storyline, Secret Wars.
I’m really worried because not only do all Marvel event books suck (DC’s too), but that this major change might affect the quality of this series if it gets sucked into it. Ms Marvel is so good, I really don’t want to see it suffer because of Marvel’s blockheaded decision to join DC down the rabbit hole and rebooting their universe (just look at how the New 52 turned out! PLEASE have a plan, Marvel!).
If there’s one slight negative about Wilson’s storyline in this book, it’s when the action shifts to New Attilan and Lineage tries to get her to join his side, or something. Lineage is a pretty terrible Inhuman character (that name!) who first appeared in Charles Soule’s Thunderbolts run. I haven’t been keeping up with Soule’s Inhuman series (he’s really taken over at Marvel, eh?) so I’m not sure what’s going on there - has Medusa been usurped by Lineage? Ah, doesn’t really matter, I suppose.
The fifth and final issue that rounds out this volume is SHIELD #2 by Mark Waid and Humberto Ramos. It’s the only reason for a less than stellar five star rating for this third Ms Marvel volume. SHIELD show up at Kamala’s school and they have a crossover where they fight some generic blob monsters. Bo-ring! Not a good indicator for Waid’s new Marvel series.
If you’ve loved Ms Marvel so far, you’re gonna love the third volume too. Forgetting the Mark Waid/SHIELD issue, it’s another really well-written book by G. Willow Wilson with terrific art from Takeshi Miyazawa. The story is no great shakes but this series has been character-driven from the start and Kamala and co. continue to entertain.
Fingers crossed she survives the transition to Battle World! -
*shouts from rooftops*
CAN EVERYONE READ MS MARVEL PLEASE AND THANK YOU.
This series never fails to put a smile on my face. It is without a doubt my favourite comic/graphic novel I've read. It's funny, kickass, topical, political (in the best, yet subtle way), emotional and an all round classic superhero story. The art style is wonderful and the writing fantastic. It has some of the best dialogue and thus volume was no exception. I'm continuing to fall in love with this series more and more and I couldn't recommend it more highly. It sucks me in totally from the first page, until the last. I could happily reread the past three volumes consistently and not get tired of it. 10/10 would recommend.
seriously, it's great! -
Wow! This story is getting better and better. I'm loving it. I can't wait to read Volume 4. It really is fun and epic. There are plenty of guest stars in this one. Hulk, The Thing, Loki, and Shield to name a few. It's a little strange to me that Marvel brings in all their stars for these newer comics. I guess it connects them into the larger world.
In this one, Ms. Marvel gets her first crush and he's even Pakistani. Her parents even tried to set them up. What's better is Ms. Marvel hits it off with this boy. They are a cute couple. Is there more to him than good hair and a nice guy? There are new characters in this book as well. I miss the big dog in this one. They made a good team.
Ms. Marvel is amazing. She is an awesome superhero. She is powerful too. It's a good message for girls and for minorities. I hope they give her a movie. They could make it like Deadpool style with a 30 million budget. She is sure to be a hit on screen. Bring on Ms. Marvel. -
This one was really entertaining but not quite as gripping as Vol. 2 - I look forward to seeing Ms. Marvel more in the future :)
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I LOVE MS. MARVEL TOO MUCH. Ugh this one was so good but felt so short; I'm never going to be 300% happy until I have a volume that's 400 pages long. Because there can literally never be too much of Kamala Khan.
That Agents of S.H.E.I.L.D. issue in the back really makes me want to check out the Agents of S.H.E.I.L.D. comics, which I wasn't fully aware existed (especially since there might be more Ms. Marvel in them). Nice marketing, Marvel.
I might have to start buying single issues of this because the next volume isn't coming until the fall, I think. Of course I'm just going to end up buying volume 4 even if I buy the issues. Oh well; Kamala Khan is worth it. -
Update 2022: This is definitely where the story picks up. I’m always surprised about the unveiling of things that happen in each volume. It’s easy to forget that Kamala is just a teenager and so she is bound to experience things like falling in love and getting her heart broken. I think in this particular volume it was nice to see how Wilson was able to incorporate her every day struggles of being a teenager and fulfilling familial expectations while also being a super hero. I just wish that there was a little more clarity on Inhumans for newer readers. I still think that particular element could prove to be confusing for some.
So this volume was definitely much better than the first two. I liked the story development and that we get more information regarding the inhumans. I'm definitely excited to pick up the next volume now that the plot is much more detailed and Kamala is getting used to her position as Ms. Marvel. -
Whoa. I LOVED this volume! The first 2 volumes were lackluster for me but the story in this one was full of turns. Particularly issues 13-15. I also really loved Miyazawa's art style.
I kind of hate that I didn't start enjoying this until a romance plot was introduced, but I don't think the romance was the reason I liked it. The Inventor is gone now too, and that plot line was mainly what I didn't like about the first volumes. We got to see more of Kamala's home life and brother here, and even in the romance we were getting to know her as a regular girl and not just all Ms Marvel all the time. We saw more inhumans, more threats. I just really enjoyed it! -
I'm done with this series now.
You'll note that I am the only person in the world who does not like this story. [Edit, 7/20/15: There are 3 of us here on GR who gave this 1 star. THREE. Talk about being all the way out in the minority]
Yeah, well, I'm bringing balance. You're welcome, universe.
I've got some pictures I may or may not get around to uploading, ones that help illustrate (ha ha) my ire, but, honestly, I doubt I'll take the time to deal with this review any further after today.
In a nutshell, Kamala is full of deep thoughts and platitudes while also being all clever in her one-liners. It's like she's the new Peter Parker only with more confidence in her abilities and less questioning. She takes the time to explain a bit about her cultural background again and she tosses us some words from the homeland. It's totally organic and natural (it's not).
In the first story, she takes on (and bests) Loki.
Yes. Loki. But don't worry! It's hilarious! (it's not)
After that, she falls in love immediately with a guy, a guy you know is going to try to get her to do something she doesn't want to do, and then there will be fighting. Her BFF, Bruno, is, of course, filling in the third corner of the love triangle in this scenario.
The last part is unrelated to the boy trouble tale and involves Phil Coulsen and Jemma Simmons from S.H.I.E.L.D. which is so cool! (it's not)
The stories in this one read like a 90's family sitcom where all the drama surrounding a bad situation is wrapped up tidily in half an hour and it's happy travels from there on out.
I didn't enjoy it at all.
Also,
Adrian Alphona doesn't do any of the art in this one so I didn't even have anything fun to look at.
Screw this popsicle stand, I'm outta here.
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I feel like the series has finally found its direction. The art is so-so. It would do the series good to get a first-rate regular artist.
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Another strong volume of the new Ms. Marvel. Kamala has quickly become one of my favourite comicbook characters.
Not much to add that isn't just repeating what I've already said in my reviews for previous volumes of this book so suffice it to say that I really hope Marvel don't bugger this book up post-Secret Wars... -
GR Ultimate Summer Reading Challenge One and Done.
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I think Ms. Marvel might be my favorite ongoing comic. Wait, no, shit. I forgot about Saga for a second. Okay, so Ms. Marvel is probably my SECOND favorite comic, definitely my favorite superhero comic. I love Carol Danvers probably as much as I love Kamala Khan, but the last couple of Captain Marvel trades have fallen a little flat for me, and meanwhile G. Willow Wilson continues to absolutely KILL IT with Kamala.
Volume 1 was Kamala's origin story, Volume 2 was her getting comfortable with her powers and getting her first nemesis. This one is about being a teenage girl and also being a teenage girl with superpowers. Teenage girls get crushes. Fierce crushes. So what happens when you mix those crushes with the superhero world?
We get a little bit of a Loki cameo in the first issue, and it was silly fun. The last issue in here is actually an Agents of SHIELD crossover (which I didn't even know they were doing . . . like, FitzSimmons shows up). That last issue was a weakness in an otherwise strong collection, probably because it wasn't written by Wilson.
The main show here is that an old family friend comes in to town, and Kamala isn't too happy about it, until she realizes the kid who used to eat his own boogers has turned in to this:
They both like each other pretty hardcore right away, and it turns out they have something else incommon. They're both Inhumans. It seems like it's too good to be true . . . and it is. Kamala continues to be adorably awkward:
But the guy is a douchebag who tries to bring Kamala into his Inhuman revolution or whatever, and when she refuses, he tries to make her do it by force. It all turns into an extended rape metaphor, and a good example of the kinds of conversations we should have about consent. The metaphor was a BIT heavy-handed, which is the second reason I didn't give this five stars, but was probably appropriate for its target audience (young people).
My last complaint is that I MISS ADRIAN ALPHONA. Takeshi Miyazawa does a pretty good job capturing Kamala's awkwardness, but he also makes her . . . too pretty. Elmo Bondoc has the Loki issue, and while he does good work with the world and other characters (see below), his Kamala is weak.
Anyway, whatever. Can't wait for Volume 4. -
Bullet Review:
This was fun - but I don't feel like anything really new or unique was brought into Kamala Khan's story.
First issue was a one-off featuring Loki. Funny, but nothing noteworthy. The rest are your standard "Girl Meets Boy, Goes Head-Over-Heels, then Realizes He Ain't All He's Cracked Up to Being". The last issue is actually a SHIELD issue about Kamala meeting Coulson and Jemma. Again - fun from a "crossover" view but adds little to her overall story.
I think we need Kamala in comics; I just hope she gets an interesting story to go with her potential character. -
Ugh this was great as always!! I can't believe Loki was in the first issue as well, I'm really loving all the character drop-ins like that!
The plot for the rest of the volume was compelling and I love Kamala more each issue -
Kamala Khan is a normal sixteen-year old teenage girl in Jersey City who happens to be Muslim and, you know, a superhero, and in fact an Inhuman, like Skye/Daisy on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. The first book begins with her latent superpowers being activated by the Terrigen Cloud or Mist or whatever it is (It's a Marvel universe thing, just go with it) and her learning what those powers are and how to use them.
She also has to figure out a costume and what to do with it when she's not wearing it, and how to handle her loving but conservative parents, her mystified but supportive brother, and her equally mystified friends and high school faculty. Her best friend Bruno is the only one who knows her secret identity, and there are lines like "Dude. You're from a galaxy far, far away."
There are Marvel character cameos, including Wolverine (Ms. Marvel snaps a selfie with him, natch) and Loki, who seems to have suffered either a character change or his mom is watching (I don't keep up with the whole Marvel universe, and really, how could anyone?), and Coulson and Simmons and Captain America and some redhead who appears to be in charge of the Inhumans. Kamala battles giant robots and giant alligators and has a giant teleporting dog, so it's good her superpower can embiggen her into a giant, too, or just makes her a giant foot or a giant fist when she needs one.
The series is a cross cultural story of epic proportions, it's a coming of age story, and it's a story about those essential life lessons in finding help and support in places you never expected. Her imam, Sheikh Abdullah, is a wonderfully written character. Her parents send Kamala to him so he can straighten her out back into that perfect daughter they named her for. She tells him
Nothing's wrong with me. It's not like that...It's--I don't want to lie, but I'm afraid you wouldn't believe me. I--I help people.
And when she says she's not very good at it (and she isn't, yet), he says
Well, if you're not very good at it...perhaps you need a teacher...do what you are doing with as much honor and skill as you can.
She's expecting a verbal beat down and the religious boom dropped on her bent head and instead she finds a sensible friend.
Ms. Marvel is also a window on what teenagers are thinking these days, which makes it a revelatory read for adults as well. The second novel especially was a real eye opener for me. The messaging can be a little on the nose but the rush of the plot sweeps all before it, and the next thing you know her archnemesis--the Inventor, who, yes, does remind me a little of all three of the Trio, is back in the game, and look out, it's clobbering time.
Here is your perfect gift for that teenager or Marvel nerd (forget it, they've already got it) or, heck, anyone who enjoys a good adventure story. -
When I got through the first volume of Ms. Marvel I thought it was nice, but just not for me. I just happened to read the next volume and I started thinking Kamala is a cool kid. This volume definitely cemented the fact that I like the new Ms. Marvel. She's fun and fresh in a comic world that has kept their characters the same age for 40+ years despite advances in technology in their respective worlds.
In this volume Kamala meets a young man Kamran who she knew as a girl.
They hit it off because they have a lot in common. Things of course get crazy from there. There is also an issue in this volume with Loki as well as one with Agent Coulson and Agent Jemma Simmons.
Kamala is a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to seeing how her story continues. -
Every bit as good as the previous volumes. Wilson is really on a roll with Kamala, for my money the best new character in comics for years. The Loki guest stint does a great job at integrating the current version of the character into Kamala's world. She also does a fantastic job of sneaking in a sidebar on consent (disguised in superheroic terms, of course) in a natural way. This series just makes me so happy to read it, every time.
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Normally, graphic novels fall to the bottom of my to-read list. However, the Ms. Marvel series always skyrockets its way to the top! That said, this book didn't impress me as much as the rest of the series. The plot felt really choppy and undeveloped. Overall 3/5 stars; I hope the next books are better!
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I have mixed feelings on this one like while its better than the last volume with much better art it still kind of gets terrible in the end sort of but I kinda also enjoyed it.
The premise is kinda the same old, Kamala goes against Loki as he tries to become the new protector of Jersey city and Kamala takes care of the old viking god and then the big thing happens when she meets a boy named Kamran and well romance in the air until the truth about him is revealed and enter Lineage (an Inhuman villain) and what he has planned for Kamala and its interesting betrayals and it does deliver new villains for her but never delivers on it so thats a bad thing for this volume but regardless and a story teaming with SHIELD to take down goo monsters and it was a terrible storyline.
It feels so mundane and while some stories are great the others are boring and doesn't exactly come off as a good read but regardless I recommend this one over the last as we see Kamala finally coming on her own and becoming the hero Jersey city needs her to be so yeah that is a good point for this series! -
So. It was pretty average this time. The art is better than the previous one.
The stories, however, lacked verve. A bit of a crush thing going on as a theme is okay, but they were too quick, too bland, and it all just feels like nothing more than cameo-central. Loki was probably the worst, but seeing SHIELD in the last one was kinda... random.
Okay, but random.
I don't know. I miss the comics of the longer variety. These short shorts just aren't doing much for me. Moving on! -
3.5 Stars.
I didn't like this as much as the first two volumes but I still love Kamala! She's just so funny and loveable! The story is just a bit too predictable and I wish they would do more with it but I'm going to keep reading anyway. -
Source: Library
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Ms. Marvel has always been pretty enjoyable and this collection is no different.
So this volume starts off with Loki up to no good. I mean is he really ever? No. Let's be real. Next arc is Kamala meeting another Inhuman, around the same age as her, and growing feelings for him. Of course it's cute and lovely but you know that shit ain't going to last. DOES IT EVER? We in High School people! Then the last arc is I guess a teaser to another series called "SHIELD" and as Kamala as one of the main characters in that issue.
Good: The art is still great, as always. The dialog is fun and bouncy and always easy to get in to. Reminds me of early days Ultimate Spider-man. I also enjoyed Kamala exploring deeper feelings for someone and finding love, even if it's short lived.
Bad: Both the opening and ending seem out of place and boring one shots. Loki's especially was silly but the ending one was boring and I'd never want to read that series.
overall this was a fun volume but very short and with only 3 good issues I can't give it more than 3 stars for those good issues. Hopefully next collection is better. -
So, I really still like this one, but how many boy teen superhero books have their male heroes upended by crushes? Am I wrong, that this crush issue is seen as a girl weakness here? Everyone has crushes, right, and this is not just a teen thing. . . But having said that, we see Kamala here as, again, a typical girl who in fact is spun around in various ways by BOYS. I especially liked the first piece on Loki coming to Jersey. . . and then a super cute Muslim boy who shares her love of Bollywood films… and then there is her Italian Catholic friend who has a (hopeless, because she's Muslim and her parents would disapprove?) crush on her…. so it's normal teen stuff, okay, with an amusing and somewhat surprising twist I won't reveal. So she's both girly and a kickass superhero, she can have it any way she wants, okay! I still like this a lot, basically. The writing is really good, both conception and dialogue, and the art matches the energy and humor and style. Fun, highly recommend.
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Ms Marvel continues to be fun and cute, though I have to say this volume felt pretty fragmented. First there’s the Loki stuff, then a brief dodge back to the Inhumans plot, and then to an unrelated incident in Kamala’s school. Kamala’s geekiness and enthusiasm is still awesome, and the glimpses into her interactions with her family, but with the first bit dealing with Agent of Asgard stuff and the last dealing with SHIELD stuff (Coulson! <3)… I felt that the Inhumans plot was the only thing of substance, and it was over so fast.
I like most of the art in this volume, but the Loki section definitely isn’t my favourite style. And despite not being that fond of Wolverine/X-Men in general, I kind of miss that weird mentor relationship he had with Kamala in book two — there’s no sign of him!
It feels weird to me the way comic and movie-verse are collapsing together. This seems to fit in with what I know of Agents of SHIELD canon; does that mean it fits into the MCU too? Does that mean young!Loki is going to be a thing? Sometimes I long for the simplicity of a book series you can just read in order.
Originally posted here.
